Waited Two Years For The Hands Of God

You found out how much the raw wedges?

not to put a damper on Lee's thread...

i spent hundreds of hours on the green, trying to perfect my game, but i still got beat by someone who use a $50 perry gear wedge or a bust-up cleveland 900....

choice of equipment = self gratification

good short game = good consistency n knowledge of the shot




last sunday, i almost got beat by a 60s golfer who hit driver off the deck for almost all his 2nd shot, coupled with a short game comparable to mine, wedges he used..... purespin or something

much as i know theory is important, but practical lessons is fundatmental to hone a good short game....

not all time your ball is sitting nicely in the rough... ideal for chipping

need to see how deep your ball is in? what type of rough? shd u lob? shd u bump?shd u do a knock-down?

equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs

jmho

I saw an old man used an unknown brand (can't remember it) putter and he putted much better than a younger guy who was using an expensive Scotty. The old man managed to one or two put most of the time versus the younger guy who three putted on average. The moral of the story is, it is not the tool, it is in fact the carpenter most of the time.

FD448 wrote:

You found out how much the raw wedges?

Not yet bro. I've been asked by Miura-san himself, via the helpful regional distributor in Singapore, to send a picture of the grind I want, since he can't see me swing in person, so can't recommend a grind to suit me.

So, I am still in the process of deciding. Will let you know as soon as I find out.

FD448 wrote:

That's great! Enjoy your every game with miura. I'm building my miura hybrid. Nice feel too... Very easily to hit.

Come on, don't poison me on Miura goodies any further. I am knee-deep in them already, they are getting to be an expensive addiction.

Jez kidding, bro. Enjoy your hybrid. Do share with us your experience with it.

Lee36328 wrote:

TourSwing wrote:

Hey, do you keep stats?? E.g. Fir, gir, putts, putts/gir, scrambling, etc

Hi bro, not yet.

I will keep stats to find room for improvement. At the moment though, after I play a round, the room for improvement that will yield the greatest results are usually pretty clear to me.

For example, in my recent rounds, if I hit the fairway, it was almost a guaranteed, with chance for birdie. I topped a couple of bunker shots. And slighter longer chips were not that accurate (which would not be a problem if my approach was sharp anyway, but I was getting tired.)

After my recent rounds, my room for improvement priorities are:

1) driver - get it on the fairway by getting used to the ahina shaft
2) bunker shot - stop topping it
3) chipping - practice mid distances, 25m, 30m 40m

Parallel to that, I will work on getting comfortable with 5i, 4i an 3i.

It seems you have your plate full ... good stuff ... however, do start keeping stats, no bad shot should go to waste !! If nothing else, at least you'll have a database that you can look back at to monitor trend

slinger wrote:

not to put a damper on Lee's thread...

i spent hundreds of hours on the green, trying to perfect my game, but i still got beat by someone who use a $50 perry gear wedge or a bust-up cleveland 900....

choice of equipment = self gratification

good short game = good consistency n knowledge of the shot




last sunday, i almost got beat by a 60s golfer who hit driver off the deck for almost all his 2nd shot, coupled with a short game comparable to mine, wedges he used..... purespin or something

much as i know theory is important, but practical lessons is fundatmental to hone a good short game....

not all time your ball is sitting nicely in the rough... ideal for chipping

need to see how deep your ball is in? what type of rough? shd u lob? shd u bump?shd u do a knock-down?

equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs

jmho

No damper at all bro, I warmly welcome the response.

"equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs"

EXACTLY. And how do you know the shot you just practiced was perfect?

If your practice was not perfect, and you were aware of it, wouldn't you have stopped before spending several hundred hours at the practice green, grooving in an imperfect stroke, which can be beaten by someone using a $50 wedge?

The feedback, the pure and soft feel of the forged wedges gave me a clear feedback whether my stroke was correct or not, which allowed me to quickly discard strokes that were wrong, and finally I was left with a stroke that worked. How did I design a stroke that worked, launched the ball the way I wanted, land it where I intended and roll out the proper amount? That's where theory comes in.

And it only took 6 days. 4-5 hours per day. A total of about 28 hours. I don't know whether I can beat the $50 wedge guy or not, but I know this. i shaved 10 strokes from my average score in the next round I played. And the next one after that. Not bad for 28 hours of work.

Lee36328 wrote:

slinger wrote:

not to put a damper on Lee's thread...

i spent hundreds of hours on the green, trying to perfect my game, but i still got beat by someone who use a $50 perry gear wedge or a bust-up cleveland 900....

choice of equipment = self gratification

good short game = good consistency n knowledge of the shot




last sunday, i almost got beat by a 60s golfer who hit driver off the deck for almost all his 2nd shot, coupled with a short game comparable to mine, wedges he used..... purespin or something

much as i know theory is important, but practical lessons is fundatmental to hone a good short game....

not all time your ball is sitting nicely in the rough... ideal for chipping

need to see how deep your ball is in? what type of rough? shd u lob? shd u bump?shd u do a knock-down?

equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs

jmho

No damper at all bro, I warmly welcome the response.

"equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs"

EXACTLY. And how do you know the shot you just practiced was perfect?

If your practice was not perfect, and you were aware of it, wouldn't you have stopped before spending several hundred hours at the practice green, grooving in an imperfect stroke, which can be beaten by someone using a $50 wedge?

The feedback, the pure and soft feel of the forged wedges gave me a clear feedback whether my stroke was correct or not, which allowed me to quickly discard strokes that were wrong, and finally I was left with a stroke that worked. How did I design a stroke that worked, launched the ball the way I wanted, land it where I intended and roll out the proper amount? That's where theory comes in.

And it only took 6 days. 4-5 hours per day. A total of about 28 hours. I don't know whether I can beat the $50 wedge guy or not, but I know this. i shaved 10 strokes from my average score in the next round I played. And the next one after that. Not bad for 28 hours of work.

The way you talk about the clubs remind me of a certain someone who came and left.... he also Miura Fan.

Turbo wrote:

I saw an old man used an unknown brand (can't remember it) putter and he putted much better than a younger guy who was using an expensive Scotty. The old man managed to one or two put most of the time versus the younger guy who three putted on average. The moral of the story is, it is not the tool, it is in fact the carpenter most of the time.

The moral of the story is, whatever stroke the old man had, he practiced it until it gave repeatable results. Whatever stroke the young man had, he has not practiced it sufficiently to give the same level of repeatable results.

And if i had to hazard a guess, I would go out on a limb and say that the old man probably... took more than just 28 hours of practice to get there.

I had Vokey cast wedges since day 1. Played all my rounds with them. Scores plateaued. Went to the same practice green. Practiced for about a week. Scores improved a bit, but did not break 90 with it.

I got some forged wedges. Why the heck would people want forged wedges, I wondered. Tried them back to back with Vokeys. Heck, the Vokeys spun more. Did I just waste my money, I wondered.

Then, one of my strokes struck gold. Or rather, struck the sweet spot. And I FELT it. Man, my entire body felt it. It was my AHA! moment, my moment of epiphany.

So THAT'S what's been missing. I tried to repeat the stroke to get that feel again. Sometimes it came back, sometimes it went away. I quickly isolated what needed to happen for me to get that PURE STRIKE feel to come back. I did that by adding and removing elements until I had the smallest collection of elements required to repeat the feel. Having some knowledge of theory helped speed up the process. Having the right equipment helped to tell you the exactly the moment you stumble upon it.

hmm.. you need to see theraphist for addiction to a soft impact of forged iron..

dmateo wrote:

hmm.. you need to see theraphist for addiction to a soft impact of forged iron..

Bro,

Feel the pure strike of a forged iron, you won't be happy with cast.

Feel the pure strike of a forged blade, you won't be happy with forged cavity backs or GIs.

Feel the pure strike of a forged Miura blade, you won't be happy with any ordinary blade.

Feel the pure strike of a forged Miura baby blade, you won't be happy with the normal Miura blade.

So, like a pandora's box, of the apple of the tree of knowledge, beware. Because there is no going back once you have felt....the musical note of a Miura impact, reverberating in your soul. Don't say I didn't warn you...

TourSwing wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

TourSwing wrote:

Hey, do you keep stats?? E.g. Fir, gir, putts, putts/gir, scrambling, etc

Hi bro, not yet.

I will keep stats to find room for improvement. At the moment though, after I play a round, the room for improvement that will yield the greatest results are usually pretty clear to me.

For example, in my recent rounds, if I hit the fairway, it was almost a guaranteed, with chance for birdie. I topped a couple of bunker shots. And slighter longer chips were not that accurate (which would not be a problem if my approach was sharp anyway, but I was getting tired.)

After my recent rounds, my room for improvement priorities are:

1) driver - get it on the fairway by getting used to the ahina shaft
2) bunker shot - stop topping it
3) chipping - practice mid distances, 25m, 30m 40m

Parallel to that, I will work on getting comfortable with 5i, 4i an 3i.

It seems you have your plate full ... good stuff ... however, do start keeping stats, no bad shot should go to waste !! If nothing else, at least you'll have a database that you can look back at to monitor trend

"No bad shot should go to waste!" I like that motto.

Now thinking about it, I know why I made that two double-bogey in the 2nd round. I topped the bunker shot across the green, on two holes. Otherwise, it was either hit the fairway and make par, or miss the fairway and make bogey.

Yes, I agree, I will start keeping detailed stats soon. Thank you for the reminder.

Lee36328 wrote:

slinger wrote:

not to put a damper on Lee's thread...

i spent hundreds of hours on the green, trying to perfect my game, but i still got beat by someone who use a $50 perry gear wedge or a bust-up cleveland 900....

choice of equipment = self gratification

good short game = good consistency n knowledge of the shot




last sunday, i almost got beat by a 60s golfer who hit driver off the deck for almost all his 2nd shot, coupled with a short game comparable to mine, wedges he used..... purespin or something

much as i know theory is important, but practical lessons is fundatmental to hone a good short game....

not all time your ball is sitting nicely in the rough... ideal for chipping

need to see how deep your ball is in? what type of rough? shd u lob? shd u bump?shd u do a knock-down?

equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs

jmho

No damper at all bro, I warmly welcome the response.

"equipment might help but i learnt that it boils down to "perfect practise" to be able to hit like the PROs"

EXACTLY. And how do you know the shot you just practiced was perfect?

If your practice was not perfect, and you were aware of it, wouldn't you have stopped before spending several hundred hours at the practice green, grooving in an imperfect stroke, which can be beaten by someone using a $50 wedge?

The feedback, the pure and soft feel of the forged wedges gave me a clear feedback whether my stroke was correct or not, which allowed me to quickly discard strokes that were wrong, and finally I was left with a stroke that worked. How did I design a stroke that worked, launched the ball the way I wanted, land it where I intended and roll out the proper amount? That's where theory comes in.

And it only took 6 days. 4-5 hours per day. A total of about 28 hours. I don't know whether I can beat the $50 wedge guy or not, but I know this. i shaved 10 strokes from my average score in the next round I played. And the next one after that. Not bad for 28 hours of work.

That day i go 7-Eleven see got new OKAMOTO 002 Hydro Polyurethane on the shelve so try lor. Wah this new 002 Hydro Polyurethane solid leh, becos it is only 0.02mm and that unlike other brands which are thicker closer to the tip and thinner towards the end, the OKAMOTO 002 Hydro Polyurethane maintains an even thinness throughout the length and hence give a more consistent feel and sensitivity. Also the 002 Hydro Polyurethane transmit heat better and the temperature detection is accurate to 2 decimal places. This feel is like comparing the triple forged iron (eg Miura) to double forged ones like Ikasu. My bird was so satisfied she ask me to pass her the Life section as she is done with the Classified. I think i can be the next Ramu.

chinchiachun wrote:

That day i go 7-Eleven see got new OKAMOTO 002 Hydro Polyurethane on the shelve so try lor. Wah this new 002 Hydro Polyurethane solid leh, becos it is only 0.02mm and that unlike other brands which are thicker closer to the tip and thinner towards the end, the OKAMOTO 002 Hydro Polyurethane maintains an even thinness throughout the length and hence give a more consistent feel and sensitivity. Also the 002 Hydro Polyurethane transmit heat better and the temperature detection is accurate to 2 decimal places. This feel is like comparing the triple forged iron (eg Miura) to double forged ones like Ikasu. My bird was so satisfied she ask me to pass her the Life section as she is done with the Classified. I think i can be the next Ramu.

TourSwing wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

TourSwing wrote:

Hey, do you keep stats?? E.g. Fir, gir, putts, putts/gir, scrambling, etc

Hi bro, not yet.

I will keep stats to find room for improvement. At the moment though, after I play a round, the room for improvement that will yield the greatest results are usually pretty clear to me.

For example, in my recent rounds, if I hit the fairway, it was almost a guaranteed, with chance for birdie. I topped a couple of bunker shots. And slighter longer chips were not that accurate (which would not be a problem if my approach was sharp anyway, but I was getting tired.)

After my recent rounds, my room for improvement priorities are:

1) driver - get it on the fairway by getting used to the ahina shaft
2) bunker shot - stop topping it
3) chipping - practice mid distances, 25m, 30m 40m

Parallel to that, I will work on getting comfortable with 5i, 4i an 3i.

It seems you have your plate full ... good stuff ... however, do start keeping stats, no bad shot should go to waste !! If nothing else, at least you'll have a database that you can look back at to monitor trend

No bad shot should go to waste - I LIKE THAT!

It shows how intelligently you are going about your game and how methodical your plan for improvement is. Excellent.

I will keep that in mind and implement your approach at some stage.

Right now, I find my mental bandwidth is fully occupied monitoring my feel after each shot, scanning for errors, implementing corrections, not to mention reading the fairway, planning where to land the ball, where to potentially miss, reading the green, picking out a target, reading the green, the grain, etc... That's my flow in a round, my overall mental routine. It makes me very aware of how my swing is reacting to the course. Once a shot is taken, the only information I want to retain is the feel of impact and the ball flight, to determine whether or not a swing correction is needed for the next shot.

I don't even want to know how I am doing in the middle of the round so far, until I am back at the clubhouse. And I inform my flight mates NOT to tell me.

Because I want the mind to focus on the task at hand, and not to stress or fret over what has already happened.

juz some personal opinion....

after u sort out the feel n execution, i think course management will play very big part...

so tht "no bad shot will go to waste" can be better utilized... know yr misses n tendency...so tht u can "miss" at the right place....

i believe u can further reduce another 10 strokes...

jaketang wrote:

juz some personal opinion....

after u sort out the feel n execution, i think course management will play very big part...

so tht "no bad shot will go to waste" can be better utilized... know yr misses n tendency...so tht u can "miss" at the right place....

i believe u can further reduce another 10 strokes...

Jaketang,

Thanks for your kind comment and high opinion of my game's potential.

From the two games, when I hit the fairways, it was a birdie/par opportunity. When I missed the fairway, par/bogey, more likely bogey. I think I hit the fairways no more than 5 times in the first round, 6 time in the second round. So, 5/14 and 6/14, plenty of room to improve there.

Irons and wedges are in good shape, the key for me next is the driver. Get used to the new shaft. Or put the old shaft back. I used to hit 10 fairways or more per round. I know, I know. Why the heck did I change? Because my swing speed was getting faster. Evidently not fast enough yet. I might put back the previous Kaili shaft and just tip it.

Lee36328 wrote:

If your practice was not perfect, and you were aware of it, wouldn't you have stopped before spending several hundred hours at the practice green, grooving in an imperfect stroke, which can be beaten by someone using a $50 wedge?

The feedback, the pure and soft feel of the forged wedges gave me a clear feedback whether my stroke was correct or not, which allowed me to quickly discard strokes that were wrong, and finally I was left with a stroke that worked. How did I design a stroke that worked, launched the ball the way I wanted, land it where I intended and roll out the proper amount? That's where theory comes in.

And it only took 6 days. 4-5 hours per day. A total of about 28 hours. I don't know whether I can beat the $50 wedge guy or not, but I know this. i shaved 10 strokes from my average score in the next round I played. And the next one after that. Not bad for 28 hours of work.

i am result oriented, if my chip falls within 1m of the pin, i will be happy....

if i can repeat it everytime, then i wouldnt get beat by a $50 wedge.... so its a LOFT problem

since its a LOFT problem, i got no choice to spend more hours on the green....

if i can do what u did in 28 hours, shaving 10 strokes off my average score......... i got no golf kakis to play golf with


PS: the $50 wedge guy play 3 over with a double bogey on my monthly medal..... i small bird dun see lastic

slinger wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

If your practice was not perfect, and you were aware of it, wouldn't you have stopped before spending several hundred hours at the practice green, grooving in an imperfect stroke, which can be beaten by someone using a $50 wedge?

The feedback, the pure and soft feel of the forged wedges gave me a clear feedback whether my stroke was correct or not, which allowed me to quickly discard strokes that were wrong, and finally I was left with a stroke that worked. How did I design a stroke that worked, launched the ball the way I wanted, land it where I intended and roll out the proper amount? That's where theory comes in.

And it only took 6 days. 4-5 hours per day. A total of about 28 hours. I don't know whether I can beat the $50 wedge guy or not, but I know this. i shaved 10 strokes from my average score in the next round I played. And the next one after that. Not bad for 28 hours of work.

i am result oriented, if my chip falls within 1m of the pin, i will be happy....

if i can repeat it everytime, then i wouldnt get beat by a $50 wedge.... so its a LOFT problem

since its a LOFT problem, i got no choice to spend more hours on the green....

if i can do what u did in 28 hours, shaving 10 strokes off my average score......... i got no golf kakis to play golf with


PS: the $50 wedge guy play 3 over with a double bogey on my monthly medal..... i small bird dun see lastic

Ouch! That was one powerful lastic!

I would politely disagree with your LOFT problem bro. It's not LOFT, Lack Of Fine Talents.

It's a LIE problem. Low Impact Equivalence. I made that up just for you, so you can remember.

Let me explain.

If you focus on getting the ball within 1 m to the hole, you are training the brain with the wrong objective. Why?

Because you can get the ball to 1m from the hole in many ways, including mishits.

You can top the ball with a weak swing. The top and the lack of strengh cancels each other out and you get it to within 1 m.

You can duff the ball with a strong hit. The excess strength in the swing is absorbed by the ground and you get it to within 1 m.

There is an infinite possible variations between the two which when combined, will get the ball to within 1 m from the hole, sometimes even go in.

So, your brain gets confused, sometimes this works, sometimes that works, but more often, nothing seems to work, because it is hard to get just the right amount of overswing and slow it down with just the right amount of duff.

So, that's why in this case, each impact is different. More than one type of impact can get the ball to within 1 m from the hole. Low Impact Equivalence. It's a LIE problem.

However, if you focus on catching the ball clean AND on the sweet spot each time, regardless of where the ball ends up, you are training your brain with 1 objective. Because for a set ball position, and same swing, there is only 1 tempo that will catch the ball clean on the sweet spot. And once you find it, the brain remembers, because the sweet spot feeling becomes a powerful feedback mechanism.

Once you get that, then getting the ball to end up in a certain spot becomes a matter of adjusting the ball position and loft of your club until you get the result you want. And that should be the focus of your practice.

Let me ask you this. Do you use your hands actively in the short game swings?

Lee36328 wrote:

So, your brain gets confused, sometimes this works, sometimes that works, but more often, nothing seems to work, because it is hard to get just the right amount of overswing and slow it down with just the right amount of duff.

So, that's why in this case, each impact is different. More than one type of impact can get the ball to within 1 m from the hole. Low Impact Equivalence. It's a LIE problem.

However, if you focus on catching the ball clean AND on the sweet spot each time, regardless of where the ball ends up, you are training your brain with 1 objective. Because for a set ball position, and same swing, there is only 1 tempo that will catch the ball clean on the sweet spot. And once you find it, the brain remembers, because the sweet spot feeling becomes a powerful feedback mechanism.

Once you get that, then getting the ball to end up in a certain spot becomes a matter of adjusting the ball position and loft of your club until you get the result you want. And that should be the focus of your practice.

Let me ask you this. Do you use your hands actively in the short game swings?

i think my brain remembers..... my ball position is set, my back swing is set (8/10/12 o' clock), sometimes my execution fails me

eg SW, 8 o' clock = 15 paces, SW 10 o' clock = 30 paces etc etc etc for other wedges (applies to ball sitting nicely on the fringe)

i use my shoulders for chipping....

sometimes i catches it nicely, somtimes i dun..... i still think its a LOFT ptoblem

cos i will always remember what my CSM told me many years ago...

"doesnt mean u know how to f$%k, u can be a porn star"

slinger wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

So, your brain gets confused, sometimes this works, sometimes that works, but more often, nothing seems to work, because it is hard to get just the right amount of overswing and slow it down with just the right amount of duff.

So, that's why in this case, each impact is different. More than one type of impact can get the ball to within 1 m from the hole. Low Impact Equivalence. It's a LIE problem.

However, if you focus on catching the ball clean AND on the sweet spot each time, regardless of where the ball ends up, you are training your brain with 1 objective. Because for a set ball position, and same swing, there is only 1 tempo that will catch the ball clean on the sweet spot. And once you find it, the brain remembers, because the sweet spot feeling becomes a powerful feedback mechanism.

Once you get that, then getting the ball to end up in a certain spot becomes a matter of adjusting the ball position and loft of your club until you get the result you want. And that should be the focus of your practice.

Let me ask you this. Do you use your hands actively in the short game swings?

i think my brain remembers..... my ball position is set, my back swing is set (8/10/12 o' clock), sometimes my execution fails me

eg SW, 8 o' clock = 15 paces, SW 10 o' clock = 30 paces etc etc etc for other wedges (applies to ball sitting nicely on the fringe)

i use my shoulders for chipping....

sometimes i catches it nicely, somtimes i dun..... i still think its a LOFT ptoblem

cos i will always remember what my CSM told me many years ago...

"doesnt mean u know how to f$%k, u can be a porn star"

But being a porn star must definitely know how to fxxk..

[quote="slinger"]

Lee36328 wrote:

"doesnt mean u know how to f$%k, u can be a porn star"

Better still, some jokers trying to teach porn star how to F@#$!

slinger wrote:

i think my brain remembers..... my ball position is set, my back swing is set (8/10/12 o' clock), sometimes my execution fails me

eg SW, 8 o' clock = 15 paces, SW 10 o' clock = 30 paces etc etc etc for other wedges (applies to ball sitting nicely on the fringe)

i use my shoulders for chipping....

sometimes i catches it nicely, somtimes i dun..... i still think its a LOFT ptoblem

cos i will always remember what my CSM told me many years ago...

"doesnt mean u know how to f$%k, u can be a porn star"

Now we're getting somewhere. When you take it back, x o'clock for y paces consistently, why do you sometimes catch the ball nicely and sometimes don't?

How do you decide how firmly or how fast to swing through the shot? The answer is crucial for me to diagnose to see how to improve your chips.

[quote="chinchiachun"]

slinger wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

"doesnt mean u know how to f$%k, u can be a porn star"

Better still, some jokers trying to teach porn star how to F@#$!

I damn Like!!

Lee, I suggest you do a profile check on slinger before you diagnose his "problem"