Miura's owner

[quote="mox"][quote="Lee36328"]

ljlow wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

The blades will tell you honestly whether or not you made a good swing. What you do with that is in your hands. If you can, educate your self on what a good swing is. If you can't, get help, get a coach, a GOOD coach. You've paid for a premium set. Match it with premium practice and/or premium coaching.

Enjoy your beautiful new toys.

Hi Lee,

I have a question - assuming one trains with blades/small blades, which i have tried and agree that they are very good teachers, one learns to cultivate very precise ball striking ability and a very efficient swing, etc, and then that person then goes on to use cavity or muscle backs (perhaps also from miura), would that person have better, worse or same resultsa on the course?

Cheers

This is a good question.

It depends on the state of the swing, and how much the player can or need to work the ball.

Personally, I would not do it though. I have become accustomed to the minimal offset of the blade, and anything with more offset will hook on me.

Secondly, it took a lot of effort to eradicate bad habits collected from using more forgiving clubs, and it's very easy for the bad habits to come back.

So a blade that simply would not launch with my faulty old swing is the perfect prevention against that.

Thirdly, my sense of how much the ball will move left or right is now tuned to the blade. Ie. with just a minimal difference in setup and/or release, I know how the ball will move and by how much. Call it feel. Fade or draw.

Going back to cavity back or something else more forgiving will blunt this feel because now the ball requires more, sometime much more changes in input in order to move left or right. My MP52 was difficult to fade, for example.

Fourthly, I simply enjoy blades more, good shots and not so good shots included. No comparison at all.

So, any short term gain in a couple of strokes forgiven by cavity backs is offset by the effects above.

If you get your swing to the point where you are hardly making any poor shots, then the forgiveness benefit is even less.

So, weighing short term and long term effects, going back to cavity back when playing does not appear to be an option for me.

mox wrote:

I have actually done that, not whole set, but just one club from each of the several sets - blade, muscle back, cavity back. at the nsrcc par3 course.
Initially the blade is okay, but several holes in and under the blazing hot sun with slight loss of focus, the blades become really tough to use... and that's when use the more forgiving muscle or cavity back....

That's simply the accurate feedback of the blade telling you truthfully that your swing is not in very good shape.

Ssquirrel wrote:

Firstly, I mean no offence to anyone: just stating some of my observation and opinion.

Actually I find it odd that the people advocating that small size blades are the way to go; use new modern large cc drivers.

No offence at all; you put up valid points.

There are also modern small cc drivers, such as the Yonex Ezone 380, which is 380cc compared to the typical 460cc modern drivers.

It is used by Ishikawa on tour.

I am seeking to buy one.

Ssquirrel wrote:

In the same vein, shouldn't using small persimmon head drivers also train you to play better? Don't the new drivers help cultivate a poor swing with bad habits?

Yes, you have a point. There is a respected coach in Australia that trains his students using persimmon drivers. If I can find one, I would consider adding it to my training tools.

And yes, you are absolutely right. Forgiving drivers help to cultivate a poor swing with bad habits indeed. That's why I am using the Adams 9015D, one of the longest, but also NOTORIOUSLY UNFORGIVING drivers around (which many American single handicappers on GOLFWRX initially loved for the distance, but ditched subsequently for the more forgiving 9064LS.) My driver swing is still to unsteady to use anything more forgiving; my bad habits will easily come back. So, I am still on the 9015D. In fact, I bought two, the 2nd one is 9.5 degree, which I will using soon.

Ssquirrel wrote:

I've gamed blades before and in fact I used to think that if I could hit the long irons really well, I should have no issues with my other irons; this was partly what caused me to put a 2i in the bag last time. However when the hybrids came out, I found how easy it was to use them.
I didn't need to bring my A game but could still play an enjoyable round.

Maybe I'm not a committed golfer like most on GR, but just a casual social weekend that's why I don't understand the push for going to blades to improve your game.

Peace

Again, I agree with you. A casual weekend golfer probably does not put in enough time to train to improve. So, there is no need to seek more 'punishment'. The game of golf is more than enough in this regard sometimes. I know, I've been there.

Blades require a certain commitment to invest time and intelligent, directed effort. People who enjoy this work ethic are correspondingly rewarded for their efforts by the unmatched pleasure of gaming blades. When blades are mastered, it brings a satisfying sense of self-mastery.

Casual social weekend golfer who shoots below 80 more often than not ...

Derek wrote:

Casual social weekend golfer who shoots below 80 more often than not ...

That makes it sound like buaya sweet-talking its prey instead of casual weekend golfer...

Lee36328 wrote:

Derek wrote:

Casual social weekend golfer who shoots below 80 more often than not ...

That makes it sound like buaya sweet-talking its prey instead of casual weekend golfer...

hey the TSS never jio people for money leh. He just said he's a casual weekend golfer. A weekend golfer could be practicing/playing every weekend for 30 plus years, but can still be called a weekend golfer.

even if he plays 79, but if he does it casually. He's still casual leh. Expert but casual

To be objective, it is not fair to assume that a casual weekend golfer is automatically a hacker.

I am sure there are many good golfers who prefer more forgiving equipment as it helps them to score better, for whatever reasons. They have spent their time over the years practising and now want to enjoy the fruits of their labour.

Ball striking in and of itself is not the main objective in golf. Scoring is, and there are many ways to score in golf.

Also, please do not forget the physical constraint of a slower swing speed when combined with lower lofted clubs. Not everybody will be able to launch a 3 iron to its potential distance, especially a bladed 3-iron. However, it does not mean that they are less dedicated to improving their game.

I personally have a very slow swing speed (less than 90mph). Hybrids help golfers like me to enjoy the game and score decently even with a lousy swing. However, I would like to think I have a REPEATABLE lousy swing. I will never be able to play well from the black, blue will always be a challenge, but I aspire to shoot even par from the white tee.

While I very much admire your spirit to perservere in developing excellent ball striking technique, I am not sure if that approach is suitable for everyone.

pushslice wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

Derek wrote:

Casual social weekend golfer who shoots below 80 more often than not ...

That makes it sound like buaya sweet-talking its prey instead of casual weekend golfer...

hey the TSS never jio people for money leh. He just said he's a casual weekend golfer. A weekend golfer could be practicing/playing every weekend for 30 plus years, but can still be called a weekend golfer.

even if he plays 79, but if he does it casually. He's still casual leh. Expert but casual

That is very very cool. I like this style.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

ljlow wrote:

once a person is capable of handling blade, cavity back will not be a problem at all...
just that, CB covers you on a bad day where MB punishes you and make it even worse...

Was reading Squirrel's post and realised he was commenting on this.

Just sharing my experience... I hit blades. I have been doing so since I started golf. (Ok, its another story why I started blades from the beginning but that had nothing to do with this). Anyway, strangely, I can't hit cavity!!! Hahaha. Something about the look and sound of the cavity that made me doubt myself. Tried so many of my frens' cavity sets because I thought I should make it easier on myself, but all failed attempts. Think I need mindset change to overcome this...

Derek wrote:

To be objective, it is not fair to assume that a casual weekend golfer is automatically a hacker.

I do agree. This is the point I have been careful to stay away from. If you check my posts, I advocate blades for anyone interested to give it a try.

But the words were..

Ssquirrel wrote:

...
Maybe I'm not a committed golfer like most on GR, but just a casual social weekend that's why I don't understand the push for going to blades to improve your game.

Peace

which is why I conceded the point that, a casual weekend golfer who cannot commit the time.... to master blades.... No mention of hacker explicitly or implicitly.

Derek wrote:

I am sure there are many good golfers who prefer more forgiving equipment as it helps them to score better, for whatever reasons. They have spent their time over the years practising and now want to enjoy the fruits of their labour.

For sure.

Derek wrote:

Ball striking in and of itself is not the main objective in golf. Scoring is, and there are many ways to score in golf.

Ah, just as I did not presume casual weekend golfers are hackers, we probably should not presume that scoring is the main objective in golf for everyone.

Some play for exercise, some play for socializing, networking, some to gamble and win money, while some play as a journey within themselves.

I play for health reasons, for skill-acquisition, for business and personal socializing, for physical and mental character development, for the sheer enjoyment of a ball struck well, etc.

See how many DIFFERENT 'main objectives' there are?

Scoring low, yes, that is also one of the objectives of mine, one of several. Except I prefer to get there by acquiring skills rather than forgiving equipment, as part of my physical and mental character development.

Derek wrote:

Also, please do not forget the physical constraint of a slower swing speed when combined with lower lofted clubs. Not everybody will be able to launch a 3 iron to its potential distance, especially a bladed 3-iron. However, it does not mean that they are less dedicated to improving their game.

The solution is simple, don't play 3-irons. Plenty of hybrids in the market as you stated below, to match with the iron set.

True, no one is implying that people who don't play blades are not dedicated to improving their game. But I knew this reaction was going to come sooner or later. All blades vs game improvement threads have this common theme. So, it's understandable. Which is why I have been careful NOT to imply it.

I am saying, to improve, you need feedback - you need to know what you are doing wrong, when you are doing wrong. And I find that my blades do a wonderful job of AMPLIFYING my mistakes when I make them. And when my mistakes are (painfully) amplified, I learn faster because of the pain, not despite it.

In my case, having played for about 2 years, the scores have plateaued. Then, I dropped 10 strokes within less than 1 month getting blades and forged wedges from Miura. That is what I am celebrating and sharing.

Derek wrote:

I personally have a very slow swing speed (less than 90mph). Hybrids help golfers like me to enjoy the game and score decently even with a lousy swing. However, I would like to think I have a REPEATABLE lousy swing. I will never be able to play well from the black, blue will always be a challenge, but I aspire to shoot even par from the white tee.

If your swing is repeatable, it is not lousy. Then you should be shooting pretty low in that case, congrats.

For that matter, if the swing is repeatable, playing blades should be a cinch. Just need to match the shaft to the swing speed.

I wish my swing was as repeatable as yours. Perhaps with more practice, I might get there.

Here's a thought. If you had picked up golf in the days before cavity backs, hybrids, etc, and provided you did not find it too difficult and gave up, your swing would be much different today I bet.

Derek wrote:

While I very much admire your spirit to perservere in developing excellent ball striking technique, I am not sure if that approach is suitable for everyone.

Again, I am in absolute agreement. Which is why I said, for weekend social golfers who cannot commit the time, blade is not the way to go, until they can make a serious commitment to master it. We all agree blades are less forgiving, which means they require a certain skill level to be acquired in order to be proficient. That's just by definition.

I enjoyed the discussion as always. Cheers.

samT wrote:

ljlow wrote:

once a person is capable of handling blade, cavity back will not be a problem at all...
just that, CB covers you on a bad day where MB punishes you and make it even worse...

Was reading Squirrel's post and realised he was commenting on this.

Just sharing my experience... I hit blades. I have been doing so since I started golf. (Ok, its another story why I started blades from the beginning but that had nothing to do with this). Anyway, strangely, I can't hit cavity!!! Hahaha. Something about the look and sound of the cavity that made me doubt myself. Tried so many of my frens' cavity sets because I thought I should make it easier on myself, but all failed attempts. Think I need mindset change to overcome this...

That's interesting....

What happens when you hit cavity? Do you hook? Or something else? Would be interesting to find out.

I duffed

samT wrote:

I duffed

Interesting...

Do you hit down a lot in your iron shots? Do you take deep divots?

I speculate that perhaps the additional offset causes the CB head to close faster in the release while the club head is still going down... Or the shaft or swingweight, etc doesn't fit you perhaps. Or maybe simply, that particular CB head was too darn big and heavy...

But good to hear you started w blades. I bet you have excellent ball striking.

I hit alright. Still enjoying the game.

It could be one or all the analysis you provided, but I have given up thinking about it because it became too technical for a social golfer like me. But thanks for the information!

Daer Lee 36328,

Just curious, there are so many blades out there and believe there are some which are equivalent to Muira..It seems that you are trying to promote Miura set. If it suits you, fine, just tell us how you feel about it and i Think that is enough... Think at first we kinda of like yoru post about Muira but down the road,....hiaz...

Are you a Golf Pro too ? or promoter of Miura ?

just poison will aroused pple interest, to much will kill the interest..just my 5 cents..


Enjoy the golf and let pple decide for themselves Bro... think you can contrinuet to other threads too. cheer. no offence

Confirmed Lee is not any sales person for Miura. He just very into Miura...

an antidote for him... keke...

4dtoto wrote:

Daer Lee 36328,

Just curious, there are so many blades out there and believe there are some which are equivalent to Muira..It seems that you are trying to promote Miura set. If it suits you, fine, just tell us how you feel about it and i Think that is enough... Think at first we kinda of like yoru post about Muira but down the road,....hiaz...

Are you a Golf Pro too ? or promoter of Miura ?

just poison will aroused pple interest, to much will kill the interest..just my 5 cents..


Enjoy the golf and let pple decide for themselves Bro... think you can contrinuet to other threads too. cheer. no offence

No offence taken.

In fact, you post just shows I am doing an excellent job of sharing my passion.

I am responding to people's posting, in a thread entitled 'Miura's Owner.'

I am not a pro (yet? Maybe I can dream?), nor an officially paid promoter of Miura, but a 'promoter' (by that I mean a serious golfing enthusiast sharing my positive experience and result and encouraging others not to be shy to try) because I find them to be excellent? That I certainly am.

By the way, I am located all the way in KL, so how can I have any vested interest in what happens in Singapore, other than genuniely sharing a common passion? I want to pick up my putter from Torque golf also difficult. How to have any implied hidden agenda?

Too much poison? So far, several people who tried Miura have decided to get them, either brand new, or second hand. No need for anyone to poison, just try, and usually, people will see what the fuss is about. I just encourage people to try, rather than just sit behind keyboard typing doubts (I'm not good enough, too expensive, no club can be that good, it's just hype, etc...) or objections. In fact, the enthusiasm of people who tried have led themselves to spontaneously:
1. create the Miura Owner's thread
2. create the Miura Owner's club
3. organize a Miura group demo session

I only regret I can't attend because I am in KL.

Contribute in other threads? Perhaps if you do a check on my profile's statistics and you'll find the threads I contribute to, the amount and content I write, instead of the usual 1-2 liners, or taking the thread OT. You'll find it's not just the two Miura threads. What I contribute is on public record, available at a click of the search button.

For those who've had enough of my enthusiasm about Miura's, I would like to humbly suggest they check the thread title, and if it contains the word 'Miura', there'll probably be lots of info from me. Thus, up to them whether or not to click on such threads, exercising the power of choice, while I exercise the freedom of expression.

It's been a trip, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you for reading. Or not. Free choice.

With due respect, cheers.

FD448 wrote:

Confirmed Lee is not any sales person for Miura. He just very into Miura...

Thanks bro!

Else you would have bumped into me at Torque Golf by now...

ljlow wrote:

an antidote for him... keke...

*Gasp!*

*Choke!*

The.. poison... has... spread... too... deep....!

Too... late.... for... me...

Save... yourselves....!!!

Mr Miura should be very happy to have such an ardent and expressive fan in bro Lee.

my buddy DaveAHA is an ardent fan of Newcastle United and most of his Facebook post is about the magpies until I almost want to throw up (just kidding bro, lup u still)

Noted. Thanks for the clarification... Can see it is really a passion for the club. Do keep it up.

When my vitamin M is enough, maybe I will try.

Have your try the latest Muira with KBS C-Taper shaft with the unique grips ?

pushslice wrote:

Mr Miura should be very happy to have such an ardent and expressive fan in bro Lee.

my buddy DaveAHA is an ardent fan of Newcastle United and most of his Facebook post is about the magpies until I almost want to throw up (just kidding bro, lup u still)

Ha ha, we are called fans, because it's short for FANatic.

Warning... Non-Miura, slightly OT content below...

Just to show, when I get carried away about something.... I really get into it.

When I first got the Adams Pro Black hybrid, another difficult club, many people thought I was a bit mad, because it was NOTORIOUSLY DIFFICULT to hit.

I wanted to see whether a difficult club would transform my game. It did. It allowed me to improve my swing so much I was emboldened to go for blades. This proved to me beyond a doubt, that I should go for difficult clubs because they grow and deepen my skills. That's the message I am trying to share....

It my FANaticism, I made a thread about it, and even a music video!

Here's the video.



Here's the thread (w apologies to the moderators, because the thread is in another forum...)

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/461668-when-it-comes-with-a-sticker-that-says-for-skilled-golfers-adams-pro-black-hybrid-music-video-inside/

I am just mad about this game, and about equipment that works for me...

4dtoto wrote:

Noted. Thanks for the clarification... Can see it is really a passion for the club. Do keep it up.

When my vitamin M is enough, maybe I will try.

Have your try the latest Muira with KBS C-Taper shaft with the unique grips ?

No problem bro. It's not the first time people have mistaken my enthusiasm as hiding a personal agenda, so I'm used to it.

As for C-Tapers.... OUCH!!!!! You've hit a sensitive poison-spot! I found out about them only after collecting my PX 6.0s. Since then, I have been itching to get the chance to try. Already calculated the flex that suits me, Stiff+....

They are designed to counter PX, and their claim of 5% 5% 5% improvement is a catchy one.

And shortly thereafter, found out that Project X will release a new version, meant to counter C-Tapers.

Hmm.... now THAT I would be most curious to try as well.

Poison... poison....

Lee36328 wrote:

4dtoto wrote:

Noted. Thanks for the clarification... Can see it is really a passion for the club. Do keep it up.

When my vitamin M is enough, maybe I will try.

Have your try the latest Muira with KBS C-Taper shaft with the unique grips ?

No problem bro. It's not the first time people have mistaken my enthusiasm as hiding a personal agenda, so I'm used to it.

As for C-Tapers.... OUCH!!!!! You've hit a sensitive poison-spot! I found out about them only after collecting my PX 6.0s. Since then, I have been itching to get the chance to try. Already calculated the flex that suits me, Stiff+....

They are designed to counter PX, and their claim of 5% 5% 5% improvement is a catchy one.

And shortly thereafter, found out that Project X will release a new version, meant to counter C-Tapers.

Hmm.... now THAT I would be most curious to try as well.

Poison... poison....

I know.. the clubs with the c-taper and the smooth grip is very nice.. but the price tag also very nice...haiz..Anyway Golf & Leisure is selling both at Far East Shopping centre and Isetan..in Singapore..

l