Question on left arm and right arm's role during golf swing

Read a book by Davis Love who advocates concentrating more on the hand rather than the torso. Some explainations that I can't recall. this is very different from many who preaches using the big muscles. It has help me a bit...

hmm.. funny. I just feel that left arm is for the radius (I think of it as extension of body) and right to whip through the ball. Kindda hard to explain.
My rotation start with body, I don't care much on aiming as I setup with hand straight down (gravity pull), so on the downswing it's rotate the body, rilex left hand so gravity pull it down to where it was and then right hand help gravity accelerate the downswing.

does that make sense, sorry might be pile of rubbish.

Turbo wrote:

Lee, good observation regarding Tiger's pull/push (sounds like a marketing strategy) and Lee Westwood's right-handed push downswings.

In my opinion, Tiger's combination of pull/push not easy to time and excel as one needs to coordinate both arms together versus focusing on one arm which is a lot simpler.

I believe Tiger executes his takeaway in one-piece motion (i.e. arms and upper torso together) and downswing with what you mentioned, Pull with left arm as well as push with right arm. He once mentioned in his book - "How I Play Golf" that his left arm is his Control arm and his right arm is his Speed arm.

Yeah, I have the same book; it was the first golf book I ever bought. Fond memories.

Well, from the top of the backswing, Tiger is actually pulling down with his right arm (and left arm too) compared with Westwood who is preparing for a push with his right arm. Nearing impact, Tiger will then push with the right arm as well.

This is a complicated move as you pointed out. But, if one could master it, well, Tiger's results speak for itself.

Further on the concept of hitting and swinging as Birdman pointed out, most of us will benefit by being either a swinger or a hitter. The very talented athletes like Tiger can do both, albeit sequenced and timed carefully and correctly.

Swinger and hitter styles don't mix easily; get it wrong and the result will be massive inconsistency. The term coined for it is a 'switter', i.e. trying to swing and hit at the same time.

And that's one of the sources of confusion. There is a common foundation, but beyond that there is also a specific differentiation between the two. Swing tips that work for a swinger may not work for a hitter, and vice versa. Indeed, it may even be detrimental when applied to the wrong style.

Just look at the picture of Lee Westwood and Tiger above. Both their left arms are about parellel to the ground, but look at how different the rest of their bodies look, including hips.

For sure, at this point, various muscles are already working totally differently with different sequence and timing of tension and release for these gentlemen owing to their different swing styles.

By and large, golf instruction in the public domain today (magazines, golf channel, etc) is a bit like medicine before the discovery of germs, prescribing remedies is a hit and miss process. I chuckle as I read recent issues of Golf Digest which still show an ignorance for ball flight laws, for instance.

Being and intersection of bio mechanics, sport psychology, geometry and physics, the swing is a deep and fascinating topic indeed. A topic I enjoy discussing.

alangolf wrote:

Read a book by Davis Love who advocates concentrating more on the hand rather than the torso. Some explainations that I can't recall. this is very different from many who preaches using the big muscles. It has help me a bit...

The source of power (power accumulators) are all in the upper body. Each power accumulator has a corresponding pressure point.

The pressure point is where we sense the swing and react accordingly.

So, it is advocated that we monitor these pressure points, i.e. we 'feel' them.

The body in comparison is not so sensitive in detecting what the swing is doing. For one, it is too far away from the club. For another, our brains devote far more processing capacity for the hands and arms compared to the lower body.

However, that is not to say that big muscles are not used in the swing. That would be a mistake. The big muscles of the lower body provide most of the power, simply because of the mass.

There are lots of videos of people hitting drivers on their knees, standing on one leg, etc to prove lower body is not important. But if you look carefully, their hips are still moving to power the shot.

The lower body is marvellous as a speed multiplier. If you can rotate your shoulders and arms say 35 mph (the proper unit really should be rotational, say radians per second, but lets keep it simple for now) with the hips absolutely stiil, you get 35 mph on shoulders and arms. But if the hips are moving say 10 mph, while your shoulders and arms are moving 35 mph on top of the hips, then the net result is 45 mph for the arms.

The effect is stacked up all the way from the foot, ankle, knees, hips, lower back, upper back, etc, all the way into your grip. And finally, the shaft, which is loaded in the downswing and unload into impact.

When I started, it was a struggle to HIT the SW 75m. I was all arms and shoulders. Over time, the SW is now 100m, with LESS effort. Just TURN through the shot, making a bio-mechanically efficient swing.

dmateo wrote:

hmm.. funny. I just feel that left arm is for the radius (I think of it as extension of body) and right to whip through the ball. Kindda hard to explain.
My rotation start with body, I don't care much on aiming as I setup with hand straight down (gravity pull), so on the downswing it's rotate the body, rilex left hand so gravity pull it down to where it was and then right hand help gravity accelerate the downswing.

does that make sense, sorry might be pile of rubbish.

It makes perfect sense. That's a hitter's procedure basically.

Turbo wrote:

I personally believe that if one swing is too handsy, it leads to less power and less accurate in squaring the ball. I always have the swing thought of my torso coming at the ball on the downswing instead of the arms. The sequence is - Hip, shoulders, arms and club.

I agree with you, but perhaps you misunderstand, being 'handsy' and using the upper body and arms to hit the ball are two very different things, as different as the hands are from the arms.

I have resigned to the fact that I am LOFT and such, now only doing punch and knock down shots.


Is it correct that for both, the right arm is the dominant one?

This is what Arnie said in an article of Golf Digest dated Sept 2009:

"RETURN YOUR RIGHT ELBOW TO YOUR SIDE

Starting down, I'm conscious of unwinding the muscles of my left side, which were coiled on the backswing. My left arm is straight, and my right elbow moves back to my right side as quickly as possible. The move to be avoided at all cost is letting the right hand take over at this point in the swing.

The feeling that I get near and at impact is that my hands are ahead of the ball. My left hand guides the club, and my right hand supplies the hitting power at impact.

Push off your right foot through the shot, and keep a steady head."

One may take sometime to excel in the above-mentioned move.

Turbo, there is no disputing the sequence you mentioned, it's the basic building blocks of a golf swing. Lee has already explained in detail earlier. All good golfers be they swingers or hitters essentially sequence their swing the way you describe, and essentially arrive at the same impact position, it's just how they arrive there differently. But really, it's the finer points of the arms role in the swing in relation to hitting or swinging that we are discussing.

As you posted in bold what Arnie said in Golf Digest, his sequencing is as you believe that it should be. However, Arnie further adds that "My left hand guides the club, and my right hand supplies the hitting power at impact," which infers that he is a hitter of the golf ball. That's why Arnie has an abbreviated controlled finish in his swing versus the graceful finish of a swinger.

You are also right in saying that a handsy swing swing has less power and accuracy. To clarify, "handsy" means overactive hands that manipulate the golf club - picking up the club on the backswing with no turn, loose wrists, and flipping through the ball at impact, to mention a few. Arnie obviously does not have a handsy swing.

I hope I've helped clear up what we're really discussing here.

[quote="Derek"]

asahi wrote:

Birdman wrote:

eiji wrote:

You remember your first time?

Yea.....I was only 15 then. It was after school and only just the two of us......wait!

Wrong first time hor.

ROTAN!!!!!!!!

Wei! I was with a Sec 4 girl hor; 16 yrs of age.

Even at 15, I also play safe one. Hold hands also must be of legal age.

Alamak, you din know hold hands can get pregnant meh?

Did you wear a latex glove before holding her hand? if not, Asahi Jnr is out there waiting to meet his father for the first time.

Birdman wrote:

Alamak, you din know hold hands can get pregnant meh?

Did you wear a latex glove before holding her hand? if not, Asahi Jnr is out there waiting to meet his father for the first time.

Yea, my ah ma told me that. She also told me to wash hands after holding then no problem. I followed wor.

Duval_S wrote:

I have resigned to the fact that I am LOFT and such, now only doing punch and knock down shots.


Is it correct that for both, the right arm is the dominant one?

Bro, if you're getting the results, doesn't matter which arm is the dominant one, you're still a high hand.

Personally, I prefer to feel a pulling motion on such shots. It gives me the assurance my hands are leading through the shot and the club face is de-lofted.

Duval_S wrote:

I have resigned to the fact that I am LOFT and such, now only doing punch and knock down shots.


Is it correct that for both, the right arm is the dominant one?

For partial swings, using the right arm to provide thrust works well because the alignments are well maintained, therefore improving the accuracy of the shot.

In addition, when the swing is less than a full swing, the right arm is useful to provide the required acceleration to impact.

Lee, I think you meant the left arm for partial swing cause you refer to both partial and full swing using right arm.

Cheers,

dmateo wrote:

Lee, I think you meant the left arm for partial swing cause you refer to both partial and full swing using right arm.

Cheers,

Hi dmateo,

Thanks for reading my post.

If you notice, in both cases, I was referring to a partial swing (ie. less than a full swing) when talking about the two reasons why right arm works well.

My line of work depends on my getting the facts right you see.

But thanks though.

Notwithstanding what I mentioned, that is not to take anything away from a swinger who has mastered the use of the left arm to power both full and partial swings like Birdman.

Cheers.

Lee36328 wrote:

Duval_S wrote:

I have resigned to the fact that I am LOFT and such, now only doing punch and knock down shots.


Is it correct that for both, the right arm is the dominant one?

For partial swings, using the right arm to provide thrust works well because the alignments are well maintained, therefore improving the accuracy of the shot.

In addition, when the swing is less than a full swing, the right arm is useful to provide the required acceleration to impact.

uh my bad. Apology for that, didn't read it carefully enough

dmateo wrote:

uh my bad. Apology for that, didn't read it carefully enough

He he, no problem dude. It keeps me on my toes when talking about the swing, thanks.

Lee36328 wrote:

Notwithstanding what I mentioned, that is not to take anything away from a swinger who has mastered the use of the left arm to power both full and partial swings like Birdman.

Haven't been practising enough to master anything actually, the last few guys who've played with me can attest to that.

When I'm not swinging well and my angle of attack is too shallow, that's when I focus on my left arm for both full and partial swings.

If the swing is on with a better attack angle, I find like you said Lee, that I can use more of my right side and arm to for power on the full and partial swings. I've almost forgotten what that's like though.

Birdman wrote:

Lee36328 wrote:

Notwithstanding what I mentioned, that is not to take anything away from a swinger who has mastered the use of the left arm to power both full and partial swings like Birdman.

Haven't been practising enough to master anything actually, the last few guys who've played with me can attest to that.

When I'm not swinging well and my angle of attack is too shallow, that's when I focus on my left arm for both full and partial swings.

If the swing is on with a better attack angle, I find like you said Lee, that I can use more of my right side and arm to for power on the full and partial swings. I've almost forgotten what that's like though.

Birdie, think it is time to have a game with yiou. At least we can play level now.

blee2007 wrote:

Birdie, think it is time to have a game with yiou. At least we can play level now.

Wah.. attack when my wings are clipped.. very clever hor.

On lah... miss playing with you and Mizzy.

On la" but hor Mizzy out of my league Liao. Need strokes from him liao.

So if I play you level means Mizzy must also give me the same number of strokes la? Yippee..

hahah.. BM is up the rankings above me.. and i used to get strokes from Blee.

at best.. we play level.. hehehe

Help! Mizzy, Birdman and Blee are all OB!