Understanding the Swing Plane

Then using my untrained hacker eyes....
I took the liberty to study some other swing posted and drew some lines.



then drew lines..


Is this considered on plane?

Ssquirrel wrote:

Then using my untrained hacker eyes....
I took the liberty to study some other swing posted and drew some lines.



then drew lines..


Is this considered on plane?

Maybe thats the key to hitting it so straight as he said (although I cannot see the ball la) or seeing the shaft flex...not forgetting the impact sound too.

maybe have to bend it flat to .....

222 wrote:

Hi TGM,

you have been very generous in sharing your knowledge, thank you sir.

Is it important to follow the elbow plane from 9 o'cock to impact to 3 o'clock?

if so, is there any drills for this?

I think I have a tendency to come out of this elbow plane by either standing up, or reaching for the ball...thus it ends up closer to the turned shoulder plane.

Was Moe Norman the only true one planer?

Can you please elaborate on the 9 o'clock to impact to 3 o'clock?

Moe Norman is not one plane. He had a loop.

I have a very flat and inside takeaway which facilitates a proper return on the downswing.
To me, I will do what is necessary to ensure the most effective downswing.

Squirrel, the following picture will show you all the plane line variations...
As one takes the backswing and downswing, one's shaft can move through all these plane lines. These are called shifts.



The swing is still on plane as long as the point of origin does not change.

Back to your question about whether I am off or on plane...
I am WAY OFF PLANE on the backswing. But then that is not when I am going to hit the ball. I am very on plane at the most crucial point of the swing, downswing and beyond.

S70B wrote:

Ssquirrel wrote:

Then using my untrained hacker eyes....
I took the liberty to study some other swing posted and drew some lines.



Is this considered on plane?

Maybe thats the key to hitting it so straight as he said (although I cannot see the ball la) or seeing the shaft flex...not forgetting the impact sound too.

Actually, I added the sound and edited the shaft and the ball haha..

Ssquirrel wrote:

Then using my untrained hacker eyes....
I took the liberty to study some other swing posted and drew some lines.



Is this considered on plane?

Enjoy George Knudson whose swing Jack Nicklaus calls "Million Dollar"
Had an inside takeaway as well, so I think I am in good company...

sorry, read the thread a few times thru and still cant figure out whats it one about...

Like other player reading magazines we keep getting warned not to have an outside-to-in swing, thus a few of us go the extreme and end up with a inside to out swing... Results, still as erratic as the outside to in....

Well I cant comment on which swing technique is better, TGM or RSS, I feel that a blend of the two is the ideal. I am sure that there are aspects to each swing technique that make it worthwhile to learn.

For the purposes of this thread, I am seeing a lot of colorful lines that don't tell me jack. The only picture with colorful lines that made sense to me was posted by SSquirrel. In no other picture set did the lines cross over. But I could undoubtedly be wrong.

Doesn't Jim Furyk have a swing like in one of the videos posted here? The deep back swing, the cock to the sky, then the more conventional down swing???

In terms of which means to end up with the license to teach, all road lead to Rome I guess. More importantly is that there is a license... But for many of us:
Thanks RSS for going thru all the effort to get yourself Certified. I truly respect a man that will start with building the tools of the trade before teaching the use of the tools. I sincerely think it makes a better teacher. No point talking about Flex and Loft or Lie and the rest if we don't know the mechanics behind these terms.

Now back to this swing plane thingy... how many planes am I meant to have??? And isnt this loading thingy referring to Lag???

The Golfing Machine wrote:

I have a very flat and inside takeaway which facilitates a proper return on the downswing.
To me, I will do what is necessary to ensure the most effective downswing.

Squirrel, the following picture will show you all the plane line variations...
As one takes the backswing and downswing, one's shaft can move through all these plane lines. These are called shifts.



The swing is still on plane as long as the point of origin does not change.

Back to your question about whether I am off or on plane...
I am WAY OFF PLANE on the backswing. But then that is not when I am going to hit the ball. I am very on plane at the most crucial point of the swing, downswing and beyond.

Of the 4 planes in the picture, is there one which is better or more advisable than the rest (or one which is possibly easier to pick up and maintain)?

280 with a persimmon wood??? The really wood made woods??? . There is so much debate about shortening the game, cos it has gotten so long so easily... how is it possible that 280 was accomplished while we were chopping down trees to make clubs?

Everything I have read of late in the magazines or online, tells me that with the advancement of technology and the changes we have seen to golf equipment have also resulted in changes to the way we use the equipment. Why we talking about Persimmons woods???

Looking at www.golftipsmag.com, I see a few video lessons on driving... but nothing like this. I hope they know what they are missing.

Technospaz wrote:

The Golfing Machine wrote:

I have a very flat and inside takeaway which facilitates a proper return on the downswing.
To me, I will do what is necessary to ensure the most effective downswing.

Squirrel, the following picture will show you all the plane line variations...
As one takes the backswing and downswing, one's shaft can move through all these plane lines. These are called shifts.


The swing is still on plane as long as the point of origin does not change.

Back to your question about whether I am off or on plane...
I am WAY OFF PLANE on the backswing. But then that is not when I am going to hit the ball. I am very on plane at the most crucial point of the swing, downswing and beyond.

Of the 4 planes in the picture, is there one which is better or more advisable than the rest (or one which is possibly easier to pick up and maintain)?

Well the plane that you want to be is the closest to the shaft plane you establish at address.

What is easier to pick up and maintain is really a function of your physiology and psychological preference.

Thanks, TGM!

G_Man wrote:

sorry, read the thread a few times thru and still cant figure out whats it one about...

Like other player reading magazines we keep getting warned not to have an outside-to-in swing, thus a few of us go the extreme and end up with a inside to out swing... Results, still as erratic as the outside to in....

Well I cant comment on which swing technique is better, TGM or RSS, I feel that a blend of the two is the ideal. I am sure that there are aspects to each swing technique that make it worthwhile to learn.

For the purposes of this thread, I am seeing a lot of colorful lines that don't tell me jack. The only picture with colorful lines that made sense to me was posted by SSquirrel. In no other picture set did the lines cross over. But I could undoubtedly be wrong.

Doesn't Jim Furyk have a swing like in one of the videos posted here? The deep back swing, the cock to the sky, then the more conventional down swing???

In terms of which means to end up with the license to teach, all road lead to Rome I guess. More importantly is that there is a license... But for many of us:
Thanks RSS for going thru all the effort to get yourself Certified. I truly respect a man that will start with building the tools of the trade before teaching the use of the tools. I sincerely think it makes a better teacher. No point talking about Flex and Loft or Lie and the rest if we don't know the mechanics behind these terms.

Now back to this swing plane thingy... how many planes am I meant to have??? And isnt this loading thingy referring to Lag???

To compare apples with apples, Squirrel should have used similiar pictures.

Technospaz wrote:

Thanks, TGM!

My pleasure...if you have further questions. PM me.
Always welcome.

doesnt that mean that the lines are drawn to conform with convenience???

Well, i guess that's what circular posting is all abt.

G_Man wrote:

doesnt that mean that the lines are drawn to conform with convenience???

Well, i guess that's what circular posting is all abt.

I didn't draw the lines you are referencing on Squirrels so I can't answer your question G_Man sir...

The picture with Billy Mayfair is fairly simple to understand if you want to understand it.
The swing plane has a base - the point of origin.
For a swing to be considered ON PLANE while shifting, one end of the shaft will have to point at the base no matter what.

The Golfing Machine wrote:

G_Man wrote:

sorry, read the thread a few times thru and still cant figure out whats it one about...

Like other player reading magazines we keep getting warned not to have an outside-to-in swing, thus a few of us go the extreme and end up with a inside to out swing... Results, still as erratic as the outside to in....

Well I cant comment on which swing technique is better, TGM or RSS, I feel that a blend of the two is the ideal. I am sure that there are aspects to each swing technique that make it worthwhile to learn.

For the purposes of this thread, I am seeing a lot of colorful lines that don't tell me jack. The only picture with colorful lines that made sense to me was posted by SSquirrel. In no other picture set did the lines cross over. But I could undoubtedly be wrong.

Doesn't Jim Furyk have a swing like in one of the videos posted here? The deep back swing, the cock to the sky, then the more conventional down swing???

In terms of which means to end up with the license to teach, all road lead to Rome I guess. More importantly is that there is a license... But for many of us:
Thanks RSS for going thru all the effort to get yourself Certified. I truly respect a man that will start with building the tools of the trade before teaching the use of the tools. I sincerely think it makes a better teacher. No point talking about Flex and Loft or Lie and the rest if we don't know the mechanics behind these terms.

Now back to this swing plane thingy... how many planes am I meant to have??? And isnt this loading thingy referring to Lag???

To compare apples with apples, Squirrel should have used similiar pictures.

Then maybe you should show us your back swing with lines... then easier for us to relate. rather than cutting out from webbies or magazines.

shotah wrote:

The Golfing Machine wrote:

G_Man wrote:

sorry, read the thread a few times thru and still cant figure out whats it one about...

Like other player reading magazines we keep getting warned not to have an outside-to-in swing, thus a few of us go the extreme and end up with a inside to out swing... Results, still as erratic as the outside to in....

Well I cant comment on which swing technique is better, TGM or RSS, I feel that a blend of the two is the ideal. I am sure that there are aspects to each swing technique that make it worthwhile to learn.

For the purposes of this thread, I am seeing a lot of colorful lines that don't tell me jack. The only picture with colorful lines that made sense to me was posted by SSquirrel. In no other picture set did the lines cross over. But I could undoubtedly be wrong.

Doesn't Jim Furyk have a swing like in one of the videos posted here? The deep back swing, the cock to the sky, then the more conventional down swing???

In terms of which means to end up with the license to teach, all road lead to Rome I guess. More importantly is that there is a license... But for many of us:
Thanks RSS for going thru all the effort to get yourself Certified. I truly respect a man that will start with building the tools of the trade before teaching the use of the tools. I sincerely think it makes a better teacher. No point talking about Flex and Loft or Lie and the rest if we don't know the mechanics behind these terms.

Now back to this swing plane thingy... how many planes am I meant to have??? And isnt this loading thingy referring to Lag???

To compare apples with apples, Squirrel should have used similiar pictures.

Then maybe you should show us your back swing with lines... then easier for us to relate. rather than cutting out from webbies or magazines.

...because this is not a study of my swing? Haha...
especially since what I am doing on my backswing is unique (or weird!) or off plane to say the least.

I drew lines based on the swing posted just to try to understand more about the plane.
Fair.. if you say it's not a study of your swing, and your explanations of your unique backswing, then I won't look at that swing.

I'm just trying to understand more because I've been told I "come in under the plane" and that's why sometimes I get pushes and sometimes snap-hooks.

The Golfing Machine wrote:

G_Man wrote:

doesnt that mean that the lines are drawn to conform with convenience???

Well, i guess that's what circular posting is all abt.

I didn't draw the lines you are referencing so I can't answer your question G_Man sir...

Okay, whatever..

But let me run over some of the points in the earlier post and to tally them up.

I am truly confused from reading your post... Could you please clarify the following for me?

"Best to take lessons from pros in a country club tied to the PGA."

Why??? Surely there are exceptions to your norm??? I didn't learn to drive from someone with ties to with Honda or Toyota. And whats wrong with the other golf organizations?

"I have a very flat and inside takeaway which facilitates a proper return on the downswing.
To me, I will do what is necessary to ensure the most effective downswing."

Are you advocating a flat back swing? As it will facilitate a proper return on the down swing?? Which part of your swing analysis shows this?


"The swing is still on plane as long as the point of origin does not change."

I assume the origin is just behind the ball where the club started from? If yes, well, so any back swing will do,. as long as we get back to the origin? Or were you referring to the ball moving while you were doing your back swing???

Ssquirrel wrote:

I drew lines based on the swing posted just to try to understand more about the plane.
Fair.. if you say it's not a study of your swing, and your explanations of your unique backswing, then I won't look at that swing.

I'm just trying to understand more because I've been told I "come in under the plane" and that's why sometimes I get pushes and sometimes snap-hooks.

Your pushes happen because you are not squaring the face up as the clubface approaches impact.
Your snap hooks are caused because of excessive post-impact roll of the clubface.
I would suggest using an impact bag to identify the optimum amount of clubface roll as you approach the ball.
Sounds like your optimum roll is somewhere between your snaps and pushes.

I am also confused.

I tot it was a thread on 'understanding the swing plane'. You even posted your swing as an example but then said it is not a study of your swing.

For those less informed, they will take it that it might be the correct way to swing. Advocation of such unorthodox methods is 1 of many ways for beginners to lose interest in the game if they follow such techniques.

The Golfing Machine wrote:

Your pushes happen because you are not squaring the face up as the clubface approaches impact.
Your snap hooks are caused because of excessive post-impact roll of the clubface.

One of the reasons for post-impact roll is also excessive inside take-away. Most people's hands are not educated enuff to square it properly if they din have the proper takeaway path in the 1st place.

i am utterly confused after looking and think i shall give up and go fishing.. at least fishing still use shafts and its easier..

"Sounds like your optimum roll is somewhere between your snaps and pushes."
Lagi confused liao...
Is it possible for it to be anywhere else???