Any pros teaching single-plane swing?

Hi,

I would like to seek opinion on my swing from a pro teaching single-plane swings.

Story:
It seems like my swing is one of very flat but the pros I have been going to are teaching more upright swing planes.
I seem to be able to do the more upright ones on my practice swings but whenever I put a ball there, my swing goes
back to one which is very flat plane.

Anyone knows of pros who teaching single-plane swings?

Thanks!!

What is your ball flight and impact like? If it is ok then you are swinging fine!

Ball flight is straight when it launches.

Then my kakis were telling me my swings very flat and halfway (looks like half swings) and Im using a lot of around swing with arms to generate power.

Tried to change that then end up suffering from a bout of shanks currently.

Went back for lessons and my Pro is telling me my right hand is throwing the club outwards towards the ball.

He's trying to make my swing more upright now. Still shanking.

I think (from the videos of my swing) my around the body swing is causing the problem.

Which makes me wonder if I should stick with my flat swing and correct the problem from there or change to a more upright swing and work on dropping my right elbow first (on downswing) to delay my body turn.

Without seeing swing.... The shank is likely being caused by the club going too far inside your target line on the takeaway, so then on the downswing you are stuck, this is the case for most round the body swings but does not have to be so!

There is nothing wrong with a flat swing.. (Matt Kuchar for example), but the alternative you described "work on dropping my right elbow first (on downswing) to delay my body turn." In my opinion is not a good way to start a downswing.

The upper body should initiate the downswing, they are the stronger muscles, and if you are in a good back swing position it is an effortless and very powerful motion.

I would in all honesty, not listen to your friends, and as long as your Pro is good... (PGA) trust him.

shorthitter, isn't your hips that initial the downswing? Thinking of releasing ground up to your hands. Correct me if i am wrong

goh.YF.52 wrote:

shorthitter, isn't your hips that initial the downswing? Thinking of releasing ground up to your hands. Correct me if i am wrong

It is not wrong to do that... But if you initiate from the hips... that is hardly the ground, it is halfway up your body already... then the right heel comes up, then your shoulders are pointing left, then you pull or slice.... not great....

But as tokkoking is saying he wants to initiate with his hand to drop his elbow into what used to be called "the slot".

Starting anything with the hands.. again my opinion only, whether it be back swing or downswing is asking for trouble.

The hands are too fast and the body cannot keep up, the power is in the body not the hands.

In the Old days (Palmer Nicklaus etc..) it used to hip release followed by huge hand release to try to square club face, then we would hang back drive the legs, ok, it worked but the timing had to be so good only the best could do it repeatably.

With the development of Dopplar radar and the revelation of the "D" plane we have discovered that there are far easier and more efficient ways to strike a golf ball that have all but eliminated, I wont say weight transfer, because it still happens, but swaying and huge tilted spines are a thing of the past, and rotating forearms both back and thru are minimized.

I have video of LCB last time he was at Laguna which demonstrates nicely, but I have to get his permission before I can post.

Long winded reply Goh I am sorry, and it is very hard to explain, but if we look at all the modern swings, Tiger included you will see the hips do not start but they follow, and that is why he is still struggling because his old coaches trained him that way, but his new swing is very compact yet powerful.

shorthitter wrote:

Without seeing swing.... The shank is likely being caused by the club going too far inside your target line on the takeaway, so then on the downswing you are stuck, this is the case for most round the body swings but does not have to be so!

There is nothing wrong with a flat swing.. (Matt Kuchar for example), but the alternative you described "work on dropping my right elbow first (on downswing) to delay my body turn." In my opinion is not a good way to start a downswing.

The upper body should initiate the downswing, they are the stronger muscles, and if you are in a good back swing position it is an effortless and very powerful motion.

I would in all honesty, not listen to your friends, and as long as your Pro is good... (PGA) trust him.

Hi Shorthitter,

Do you mean the lower body should initiate the downswing?

shorthitter wrote:

goh.YF.52 wrote:

shorthitter, isn't your hips that initial the downswing? Thinking of releasing ground up to your hands. Correct me if i am wrong

It is not wrong to do that... But if you initiate from the hips... that is hardly the ground, it is halfway up your body already... then the right heel comes up, then your shoulders are pointing left, then you pull or slice.... not great....

But as tokkoking is saying he wants to initiate with his hand to drop his elbow into what used to be called "the slot".

Starting anything with the hands.. again my opinion only, whether it be back swing or downswing is asking for trouble.

The hands are too fast and the body cannot keep up, the power is in the body not the hands.

In the Old days (Palmer Nicklaus etc..) it used to hip release followed by huge hand release to try to square club face, then we would hang back drive the legs, ok, it worked but the timing had to be so good only the best could do it repeatably.

With the development of Dopplar radar and the revelation of the "D" plane we have discovered that there are far easier and more efficient ways to strike a golf ball that have all but eliminated, I wont say weight transfer, because it still happens, but swaying and huge tilted spines are a thing of the past, and rotating forearms both back and thru are minimized.

I have video of LCB last time he was at Laguna which demonstrates nicely, but I have to get his permission before I can post.

Long winded reply Goh I am sorry, and it is very hard to explain, but if we look at all the modern swings, Tiger included you will see the hips do not start but they follow, and that is why he is still struggling because his old coaches trained him that way, but his new swing is very compact yet powerful.

Not long winded compared to the countless articles on the internet about golf swings. Used to hit slices but nowadays, i tend to pull. Not sure why i hit pull or slice but you pointed out my tendencies when i 'off' form. Any average day i can get 10 fairways and 6 greens. Just broke 80 recently with 12 fairways and 11 greens. I consider myself a consistent bogey player despite tons of short game problems. I had been wanting to maximise my distance with my current swing speed. Saw my figures on flightscope with a astounding average of 18* launch and 3500rpm, a decent ascending ball flight but descending steeply. Not sure why also, to reach 100m on range normal 9 or a nuke PW for me. Haiz, maybe gonna get some help.

*Sorry TS for the unrelated post here, but i have bad experiences with opening threads. *

Tokkokking wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

Without seeing swing.... The shank is likely being caused by the club going too far inside your target line on the takeaway, so then on the downswing you are stuck, this is the case for most round the body swings but does not have to be so!

There is nothing wrong with a flat swing.. (Matt Kuchar for example), but the alternative you described "work on dropping my right elbow first (on downswing) to delay my body turn." In my opinion is not a good way to start a downswing.

The upper body should initiate the downswing, they are the stronger muscles, and if you are in a good back swing position it is an effortless and very powerful motion.

I would in all honesty, not listen to your friends, and as long as your Pro is good... (PGA) trust him.

Hi Shorthitter,

Do you mean the lower body should initiate the downswing?

Tokkokking, I am sorry my man, I totally missed your question in there....

Nope, in fact the opposite, the legs should provide a stable base, and the upper body rotates around this base...

I will try to find a video that explains it better.....

Tokkokking wrote:

Anyone knows of pros who teaching single-plane swings?

Thanks!!

Try GL Tan at Punggol

simoner wrote:

Tokkokking wrote:

Anyone knows of pros who teaching single-plane swings?

Thanks!!

Try GL Tan at Punggol

Thanks bro!

I will look for him if I still can't sort out my swing with my pro.

shorthitter wrote:

Tokkokking wrote:

Hi Shorthitter,

Do you mean the lower body should initiate the downswing?

Tokkokking, I am sorry my man, I totally missed your question in there....

Nope, in fact the opposite, the legs should provide a stable base, and the upper body rotates around this base...

I will try to find a video that explains it better.....

This appears to be the opposite of what the PGA Tour PRO advocate ... Tiger Woods, the late Ben Hogen, Adam Scott, Rory McIlroy, Bubba Watson, etc. initiate the downswing with their hip (lower torso) ...

Turbo, With the exception of Tiger Woods (new swing) you are correct, however they all were taught under old ball flight laws.

There was a fantastic slo mo of Graeme McDowell last night that showed it perfectly.

I was with LCB on range this morning I took some video (and I in no way coach or advise him, but by watching the video he found a flaw) will post it later.

Hi Tokkokking ... I'm no coach, but have done some research on the subject and therefore contributing ...

"work on dropping my right elbow first (on downswing) to delay my body turn" is not a great idea. It will only lead to a more inside-out path causing you to get stuck resulting in shanks, pushes/ blocks, snap hooks etc ...

From what I have read, Tiger Woods (current swing) initiates his downswing by pretending to squash a tomato under his left foot. This results in his weight shifting forward onto his left leg which he then pivots around. He ensures his hands remain in front of his body (old swing had him getting stuck) throughout the swing. With knowledge of the d-plane and new ball flight laws, Tiger is now swinging left (i.e. on plane follow through) and no longer inside out.

Which part of the body initiates the downswing is a "feel" thing ... and after so many years of big weight shifts and swinging inside-out, Tiger now "feels" he starts the downswing with his upper body.

shorthitter wrote:

Turbo, With the exception of Tiger Woods (new swing) you are correct, however they all were taught under old ball flight laws.

Hi shorthitter, I still think Tiger initiates his dowswing with the lower torso. However, based on my untrained eyes, the distinct different from his past swing is that, his 2013's swing does not lower his head on impact and he stays on top of the ball thru out ... Here is the latest swing of Tiger ...

And that's great my man, you coach where????

Perhaps, let shorthitter to seek LCB video first before posting it. That will take this discussion to another level.

cheers man

Stickman, Turbo it is not that I do not respect your opinion or views, it is that things change... views change...

Turbo quoted Tiger, Ben Bubba, whoever else... they did not have access to what we know now... Science is wonderful.

Doppler radar has dispelled so many "theory's" in golf. Video really now proves nothing.

It is hard for Golf Pro's to accept that all they knew as correct was not.

Of course getting the ball off the ground and impact really is the same, but for better golfers times are exciting.

As far as starting with the hips, my point is more mental than physical, if you asked Tiger now how he started his downswing, he would say he turned his chest towards the ball.. of course to do that as a matter of body rotation the hips move... did he move them first???? not in his mind.

Try it, swing to the top of your swing, clear your hips, and what is the result you are hanging back on your right side and having to flip your wrists through impact to try to square the club face which you don't have to do with the modern swing... just look at Grahame McDowell.

BTW I posted the LCB swing on facebook, thanks to Zaw Moe's gypsy dance in the background it did not help my serious topic reply.... I will find another!

Wow great! SH. I m really keen to see the video

Denis wrote:

Wow great! SH. I m really keen to see the video

Mate, you see SH's last post?

At the bottom of his post, in his auto signature, click on his fb link

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Singapore-Golf-Services/191449734229349

Hi bro, thanks I did...but I cant see what SH was talking abt...
was hoping to see the other video he's looking for.
Hopefully I'll be able to understand better.

Hi shorthitter,

Bro, don;t get me wrong. Whenever there is something new to me, I generally let the other party explain more and I will try to understand what he is trying to say. Because it is something new that you mention about "...moving the chest ...." .

So after your last write up, I began to see where you are coming from. If I may, your key word is "what the mind tells the body to do may not be what the body actually does."

I used to have too much of a backswing (cross the line) and it still comes back to haunt me. So my coach did tell to me : "tell your mind to stop swinging earlier even if I think my backswing is not enough" . He took a video when I followed his method, and true enough, the backswing did not "cross the line"!

The other fault of mind is fast hip turn and my hands are too slow to catch up. So now in my mind, I imagine my hip and arms start together. In actual body movement, my hips starts than my hands, but the seperation between my hips and arms are not as far as my earlier swing.

Shorthitter: me bad, if I got a wrong message across to you. Now will look at LCB swing which you have readily share here in this forum.....

Cheers

In looking for a coach, it is paramount that he/she should be able to communicate to the student what he should be feeling as he executes the motion. Often it involves exaggerating the action, e.g. to cure a backswing that is too long, the coach's instruction is to do a 3/4 swing.

Sometimes however, it takes a lot more imagination to get the student to feel what the coach is trying to get across. Imagery such as hitting with a solid left side, or throwing a bucket of water...or squashing a tomato under the left foot - all work for different people, different swings.

I have friends who have very armsy swings with little body action; stopping short of telling them to start their swings from the ground up (which inevitably screws them up as they violently twist their hips and leave the lagging clubhead way open), the wisest thing to tell them is: go get a tune-up lesson.

We may think we have seen all the videos and read all the books and seen all our friends improve with a few friendly swing tips, but few of us have coached students day-in day-out, much less have the experience to match swing theory to the biomechanics of each golfer.

I tried to look for coaches who had gone through jim hardy's training..the closest one is in Manila

Hey Stickman, no drama mate, we are all looking to improve, me my coaching methods and you guys your games.

Here is a video I took of Zaw Moe this morning, he is trying to change his swing to be more "armsy".

He believes that he is getting old and cannot rotate as he used too.

I disagree but his mind is telling him that.

I cannot get the video to upload, I am using image shack but the code does not look right, it keeps wanting to take me back to image shack website... i will keep trying.