Lost ball - stroke and distance, or 2 strokes?

sunny wrote:

Say on a short par 4, you hit a ball into deep rough and may be lost. You play a p ball, hit it short this time to keep it in play. Approach perfectly to within a foot or two to make a simple bogey. According to you, you can declare the first ball lost. But what if when your opponent goes up and found the ball sitting deep behind trees and insist your p ball cease to be in play cos original is found?

He got a gd point. P ball cannot be an insurance shot.

27-2
b.When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the
original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).


Therefore, if already made bogey, the lost ball which was found subsequently, is considered lost.

If approach shot has made (but before you putt) and the lost ball was found (by your opponent etc), and

a) if the approach shot was made around or nearer the hole than the lost ball, the lost ball is to be discarded and the approach shot is valid;

b) else, the approach shot is to be cancelled and the lost ball becomes ball-in-play.

Not sure abt it but this is what i thot...

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

This is a good thread. Good points made.

OB A bit: I just realized that TS became Course Marshal? No longer Caddie liao...

eswing wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

In this situation mentioned by esswing, the applicable rule is 27-2c when provisional ball to be abandoned. ...... ie player must continue play with the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing wrong ball and the provision of Rule 15-3 apply.

Alan wrote:

eswing wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

In this situation mentioned by esswing, the applicable rule is 27-2c when provisional ball to be abandoned. ...... ie player must continue play with the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing wrong ball and the provision of Rule 15-3 apply.

Thanks for clarifying !!

this means when ur p ball is in a good lie, do not attempt to look for the first ball.... hopefully the first ball is not visible to everyone...

Yup, take the penalty and move on. Don't let it worry you too much.

weesern wrote:

this means when ur p ball is in a good lie, do not attempt to look for the first ball.... hopefully the first ball is not visible to everyone...

I beg to differ from the view that give up the original ball without serching even if the provisional ball is in good position.

Say if you could find the original ball, there some possible scenarios as follow:
a. bad lie. you could always punch it out back to fairway and still save a stroke.
b. unplayable lie. you could take a penalty drop at spot and play the next shot back to fairway and you are likely not worse off than taking the provisional ball.
c. you will be only slightly worse off in the unlikely situation that the original ball is unplayable and there is no place for you to take relief; You will need to abandon the provisional ball and play a ball from the original position
d. the ball is out of bounds or lost, then you could continue to play with the provisional ball.

Do a calculation and you will see which is better option for you. Knowing rules will save you strokes as well.

In the meantime, practice hard.