Club face at addressing Tee-off

Dear GRs,

may I seek your kind advise on addressing the Tee-off. Should the club face be square to the target? Cos I keep slicing my drive and when I adjust the address with a natural hold, straightening of my left arm and shaft (the club face will tilt slightly to the left), I ended up hooking.

Hello bro. Slicing the ball could be due to a few different factors. 
You could be swinging with an out to in swingpath and even with a closed face, it will produce a slice. Some bros here might agree that squaring the club face at impact with a slight in to out swing is more important than what your club face is positioned at address. I think there has been a discussion here before on this topic here in the forum and many agree that clubface at address is a matter of preference. However bro, I think squaring the clubface for us amateurs is easier said than done. It boils down to lotsa practice. A really effective training tip I got which improved my driving was one put to good use by Davis Love III. When he was younger, his dad made him hit his driver at different speeds. First he had to hit like 20 balls at a slower swing speed (half of normal speed). Even though he perceived it to be half or slower, in actual fact, the club is actually travelling faster than that. It was mentioned that he hated doing this but it helped him control his clubface. After the 20 or so balls, he I allowed to whack the ball as hard as he wanted. Try it bro, and see if this training tip works out for you as it did for me.

No it will not cure your slice. It may help you hit "straighter" but your ball will just simply start more left and slice back to center.

Did you complete your swing or turn? Or you actually just stop dead at impact (chicken wing) and then complete your turn facing the target (fake move)? That really make a huge difference.
Have the thought to fully complete the swing and having your belt or chest facing the target upon completion. It should be a natural progression not a deliberate action. Remember you are swinging in an arc.  
Before hitting the ball, try to do a couple of practice swings, remember the complete the full swing. When ready to hit, my mental thought will be smooth back swing, drop, turn and extend.
Another thing that may cause you to slice is over-do backswing which I did earlier thinking I will hit further. Stop when you left shoulder is touching your chin and keep it straight. That should be enough, if you take it further, likely your elbow start  to break and with too much forearms roll, the clubface is dead open.

divotee wrote:

Hello bro. Slicing the ball could be due to a few different factors. 
You could be swinging with an out to in swingpath and even with a closed face, it will produce a slice. Some bros here might agree that squaring the club face at impact with a slight in to out swing is more important than what your club face is positioned at address. I think there has been a discussion here before on this topic here in the forum and many agree that clubface at address is a matter of preference. However bro, I think squaring the clubface for us amateurs is easier said than done. It boils down to lotsa practice. A really effective training tip I got which improved my driving was one put to good use by Davis Love III. When he was younger, his dad made him hit his driver at different speeds. First he had to hit like 20 balls at a slower swing speed (half of normal speed). Even though he perceived it to be half or slower, in actual fact, the club is actually travelling faster than that. It was mentioned that he hated doing this but it helped him control his clubface. After the 20 or so balls, he I allowed to whack the ball as hard as he wanted. Try it bro, and see if this training tip works out for you as it did for me.

 Thanks, bro devotee.

Gonna try your suggestion.

jason.koh.54966 wrote:

Did you complete your swing or turn? Or you actually just stop dead at impact (chicken wing) and then complete your turn facing the target (fake move)? That really make a huge difference.
Have the thought to fully complete the swing and having your belt or chest facing the target upon completion. It should be a natural progression not a deliberate action. Remember you are swinging in an arc.  
Before hitting the ball, try to do a couple of practice swings, remember the complete the full swing. When ready to hit, my mental thought will be smooth back swing, drop, turn and extend.
Another thing that may cause you to slice is over-do backswing which I did earlier thinking I will hit further. Stop when you left shoulder is touching your chin and keep it straight. That should be enough, if you take it further, likely your elbow start  to break and with too much forearms roll, the clubface is dead open.

Thanks bro. Noted on not over-doing the backswing. Just keep my left arm fully extended and straight?

actually if your right hand turn too much to the left also promote a slice. so there's many possibility to it, best thing is to see a pro.

I read somewhere that golf is a game of opposites (probably why it is so hard). For e.g the more you set up facing left of the target, you might actually be setting up for a fade and vice versa. 

Fully agree to see a pro (hopefully with some video analysis). In a few mins, you'll know what's wrong, instead of beating ball after ball at the range.

Hi Cactuzone,

As mentioned above, there are many contributing factors to why you both slice and hook, and it's all good to be examining the swing path and clubface address position, but perhaps, imho, it's best to go back to basics first and check the foundation for your swing, for if the foundation is not strong and alignment is skewed, then you either end up with a collapsing house of cards, or the leaning tower of Pisa.

So might I suggest that you check your setup first, from clubface address as you mentioned, to grip, aim and alignment, before you check your swing path and positions. Because how you set up influences everything else that comes after.

One very oft overlooked fault is an open shoulder position at setup, a mistake very commonly made by most of us. The shoulders naturally shift open since your right hand is positioned lower down the shaft than the left. You can prove it to yourself at home in front of a mirror by assuming your setup and paying attention to just your shoulders; put your left hand on the grip first and then your right and watch how the shoulders open up. Setup correctly in front of the mirror with the feet, knees, hips, shoulders, and eyes all aligned parallel to the target, and don't be surprised if it all feels unnatural. Golf is an unnatural anyways, in which other sport do you hit the ball sideways facing 90 degrees away from your target?

So how does a single open shoulder position lead to banana balls both ways with the same swing path?
It presets an outside in downswing if you swing along your body line. If the takeaway follows the line of the feet to the inside, then the arms get stuck on the way back down, again leading to an outside in cast from the top.

Open shoulders, outside in downswing, clubface facing target at impact (your natural hold) equals fade or slice. Effectively, the club is cutting across the ball from right to left.

Open shoulders, outside in downswing, clubface square to swingpath (your straightening of left arm and shaft) equals straight pull to the left, or a pull hook if you additionally flip your wrists through impact on the way down.

In golf, two compensating wrongs can make a temporarily fleeting right. So find the fault and fix it, rather than the symptom, and you'll enjoy your game more in the long run. : D

Note that I've made some assumptions here, since I have no idea what your setup or swing is like.

Consider this though, when the pros practice on the range, the first thing they check on is the basics. They make sure the setup is absolutely correct, before they check on anything else.

That's my cheap fix of the day.  

If you really want the proper solution to your problems, best to see a pro as already mentioned.

Birdman wrote:

Golf is an unnatural anyways, in which other sport do you hit the ball sideways facing 90 degrees away from your target?

 er... baseball?

Over swing can lead to slice also. Check where is your shaft pointing to at the top of your swing. Sometimes short of parallel is better.

jeffman88 wrote:

Birdman wrote:

Golf is an unnatural anyways, in which other sport do you hit the ball sideways facing 90 degrees away from your target?

 er... baseball?

Why thank you jeff, excellent contribution.

I see you've done your research.  

Silly me.

Thanks very much, MLP, enwee, eladnonnac, Birdman, jeffman88, 2008 and again divotee & jason.koh.54966 for your kind advise.

Went to range and kinda sorted out the problem. Was checking the basics as Birdman mentioned but still driving left. Almost gave up but had one final go by checking ball position, BINGO! Moved ball inwards from in-step of left foot to align the left eye and I drove 6 straights out of 8. Ran out of balls (after 150 balls) and was damn tired too.

Anyway, think can't save $ but get Pro help as I have the same problem with 4,5 & 6 irons though I can hit straight balls with 7i to the wedges. 

Could my switch from graphite to steel shaft plus a new driver caused this? Plus lately was experiencing aches on the fore-arm and the hands. Maybe trying too hard. Too hard from a casual player to more serious one and trying to break 100.

I think trying to hard to improve when you get new clubs is a big factor  

Whenever I change clubs I also go through quite a transition period adjusting and thinking that I should be playing better haha.... But yes I think if you put pressure on yourself when you have just changed equipment will lead to forgetting some basics such as not trying to hit the ball harder because you expect the ball to go further. At least for me anyway

Good to know you have work something out but as what the rest recommended. Get a Pro to look into your swing.

I think sometimes the design of the club head affects our visual perception of squaring to the ball. Some are neutral, others look close or open. 

I used to address the head very awkwardly trying to square the head. Now I just let it sit naturally at address, square my shoulders along the swing path, rhythmic swing and let it rip.

Perhaps you can try hitting 3-quarter swings with the long irons first ... if the ball slice, hook, likely your setup or swing path is not right ...

If you want to work on the swing control, don't focus on distance of the shot... get the setup right, this will cure alot of the headache ...

Different strokes different folks.
Whatever is comfy to your visual.

Sometimes a visit to a fitter would help... maybe a simple change in swing weight is needed ... or maybe shortening of driver shaft to straighten shot for greater accuracy... or even to a better aftermarket shaft... in everything there will be downtime to get used to new setup before hitting further and w greater accuracy

Hi Bros,

many thanks to you for your kind feedbacks and advises.

Took your advise to seek guidance from a Pro and was fortunately to attend a driving clinic by a PGA Pro.

Learned my flaws, 2 very basic ones. 1) my setup (from video) I was to far from the ball, reaching out to it instead of just hanging my arms in a driver's length to ball & 2) my grip, right hand stronger - tilted more to right instead of over the left thumb. I noticed a lot of golfers doing the same at the range. Pro said very common mistake among many.

As new as I am - a 6 months baby into this addictive sport, I tend to fade every single shot with my driver. I was not able to return the club face to square with my down swing. I blame it on a crazy wonky right hand.

So what I did as a quick fix/ short term solution, was to close my club face at address, so it "returns" to square at impact and henceforth, not slicing each shot as much.

This enables me to play on course (once or twice a week) while working on the range simultaneously to resolve the real issues.

Bingo, TDO.

i think he meant clubface close in relation to target line... also sounds like using a stronger grip

lowowa wrote:

As new as I am - a 6 months baby into this addictive sport, I tend to fade every single shot with my driver. I was not able to return the club face to square with my down swing. I blame it on a crazy wonky right hand.

So what I did as a quick fix/ short term solution, was to close my club face at address, so it "returns" to square at impact and henceforth, not slicing each shot as much.

U have to use your body to square the ball and not the hands in order to attain higher chances of getting straight shot ...