Before I start, lemme state that I do not currently play any forged irons regardless if it's jap forged or not. I used to play mizuno forged irons, now i play with cast irons, and I take everything I read with a pinch of salt. I feel both the club head design (incl die manufacturing) plus the club manufacturing (regardless it it's forged or cast) all contributes to the quality of the final output that you hack around for 18 holes.
Tom wishon's article is 'interesting' because he is a designer, he downplayed the forging process claiming a china co. without a history of forging samurai swords since the day of Shogun, can churn out equally good forged irons. He claimed that it is the design that matters
On the other hand purists will insist it's jap forge or nothing.
woah.. those irons are forged but without the word forged etched onto them right?
I have heard of cornell of chicago irons .. do you have them in musclebacks?
The set I have which is forged by Cornell is the Macgregor PMB Tour. I believe it is forged in the late 90s or very early 2000. It was one of the very last few models done by the Cornell factory in USA before they stopped making golf irons.
They have the words "forged" and PMB stands for Progressive Muscle Back.
It seems that Don White liked this design so much while he's at MacGregor that it is now "re-appearing" under the Scratch brand prototype for 2011. Not sure where it's made now though.....
Before I start, lemme state that I do not currently play any forged irons regardless if it's jap forged or not. I used to play mizuno forged irons, now i play with cast irons, and I take everything I read with a pinch of salt. I feel both the club head design (incl die manufacturing) plus the club manufacturing (regardless it it's forged or cast) all contributes to the quality of the final output that you hack around for 18 holes.
Tom wishon's article is 'interesting' because he is a designer, he downplayed the forging process claiming a china co. without a history of forging samurai swords since the day of Shogun, can churn out equally good forged irons. He claimed that it is the design that matters
On the other hand purists will insist it's jap forge or nothing.
Just watching the Mizuno sound test on youtube alone will convince anyone on the superiority of forged over cast.
We see heads with the words 'forged' stamped proudly forged heads, right?
How about cast? So far have not seen any heads with the words 'cast' proudly stamped on it. I wonder why? Hmm.... let me ponder this carefully....
And when it is made in China, it is usually in very tiny characters, hidden somewhere. Take any TM clubs, and look for it. You'll eventually find it.
Made in Japan? Speaks for itself.
I think that's a clue.
For those who claim they can't feel the difference in cast or forged, I say, good luck to you sir.
For those who claim feel is not important to golf... well...
And where is feel MOST important? How about short game? Putting?
So, let me check my Scotty.... is it cast in China? Let me see...
Technospaz Advisor
Posts : 15669 Join date : 2009-06-18 Age : 49 Location : Typically OOB
feel is more obvious on long iron for me. I love the feel on 4 and 3 iron, but especialy 3 iron. So much so that my 5 wood is not in my store room. That is or was my confidence club, the club I go back to when things goes wrong. that should say how much I like to hit my 3 iron nowadays
feel is more obvious on long iron for me. I love the feel on 4 and 3 iron, but especialy 3 iron. So much so that my 5 wood is not in my store room. That is or was my confidence club, the club I go back to when things goes wrong. that should say how much I like to hit my 3 iron nowadays
So, as an experiment, I went to youtube and searched for 'golf club forging' and got lots of hits.
Then I tried 'golf club casting', 'the art of casting', 'golf club casting process' and whatever I could think of, and I got mostly videos on golf swing, how not to cast the club early in the downswing.
So, as an experiment, I went to youtube and searched for 'golf club forging' and got lots of hits.
Then I tried 'golf club casting', 'the art of casting', 'golf club casting process' and whatever I could think of, and I got mostly videos on golf swing, how not to cast the club early in the downswing.
So... another clue is it?
Where is the counterpart of this video, with some senior technical director of some brand proudly explaining the history of casting, and how casting is superior to forging?
That would be an incredible video to watch. So far, haven't seen it myself yet. Kinda like bigfoot and loch ness.
dmateo Super Active Golfer
Posts : 1104 Join date : 2010-09-19 Location : Singapore
nah.. I have buddy who hit iron like a mad bull, 3i for 220 meter average. Now I do understand why and hopefully I will also gain that sort of confidence. I'm in no where close to him and I asked him why iron. he said, cause it's so soft it's fun.
It might be a coincidence but he is using tournament blade by yeah you guessed it Miura Sorry not affiliated w/ Miura, not a sales person, just a user.
For the records he carry an old 5 wood (callaway warbird reshafted), and doing 240 on that one. I can only describe him in one word, monstrouscrazymadbull.
Technospaz Advisor
Posts : 15669 Join date : 2009-06-18 Age : 49 Location : Typically OOB
Frankly, if it works... it works. Whether it's forged, cast or moulded from clay. Choose clubs which you feel work for you regardless of how they are made. Ultimately, it's what gets the ball in the hole with the least number of strokes.
My 2cents: Having tried forged and cast irons, I prefer the former. It's not so much about forgiveness (since I think cast irons are just as forgiving depending on how they are made), but really, it's about feel and I love the feel of a clean shot with a forged iron. It's downright exhilarating.
Over the past year that I used Mizuno forge clubs... I have appreciated the art of 'FORaGING". Yes, it is FORaGING thru' roughs, clumbs, wasteland and sand...
My playing partner actually commented that my skills getting out of rough is getting much better of late... and it better did coz I spent a lot of my time there...
Over the past year that I used Mizuno forge clubs... I have appreciated the art of 'FORaGING". Yes, it is FORaGING thru' roughs, clumbs, wasteland and sand...
My playing partner actually commented that my skills getting out of rough is getting much better of late... and it better did coz I spent a lot of my time there...
Somehow my skill in rescuing par from water hazard has not improved despite sending many many balls there...
I am however now a world-class expert on rule 26 and rule 27, on where to drop your ball after a hazard, the definition of normal vs lateral hazards, whether the drop zone is compulsory or optional, etc....
Turbo Hall of Fame Golfer
Posts : 5876 Join date : 2009-09-30 Age : 98 Location : Pin Hole
Over the past year that I used Mizuno forge clubs... I have appreciated the art of 'FORaGING". Yes, it is FORaGING thru' roughs, clumbs, wasteland and sand...
My playing partner actually commented that my skills getting out of rough is getting much better of late... and it better did coz I spent a lot of my time there...
Somehow my skill in rescuing par from water hazard has not improved despite sending many many balls there...
I am however now a world-class expert on rule 26 and rule 27, on where to drop your ball after a hazard, the definition of normal vs lateral hazards, whether the drop zone is compulsory or optional, etc....
Unless you're Tiger and u can walk on water (rem the old Nike advert) , I don't see how you can rescue the balls that plunged into water....
Over the past year that I used Mizuno forge clubs... I have appreciated the art of 'FORaGING". Yes, it is FORaGING thru' roughs, clumbs, wasteland and sand...
My playing partner actually commented that my skills getting out of rough is getting much better of late... and it better did coz I spent a lot of my time there...
Somehow my skill in rescuing par from water hazard has not improved despite sending many many balls there...
I am however now a world-class expert on rule 26 and rule 27, on where to drop your ball after a hazard, the definition of normal vs lateral hazards, whether the drop zone is compulsory or optional, etc....
Unless you're Tiger and u can walk on water (rem the old Nike advert) , I don't see how you can rescue the balls that plunged into water....
Subject: Re: Musclebacks aka Blades 
Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:17 pm
