Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?

*referee moment*

All, No one is totally right or wrong. One has one's way of handling stuff due to one's opinion and view of the world.

Read/Listen with an open mind. Embrace your mistakes, move on and get the problem solved already!

>>>>SUNNY,

Please read motokah's comments AGAIN. He advocates suing people.

And please read jimmychoo's comments. He said he SUED people, in the end, lots of time AND money wasted, NOTHING. Understand?

>>>>Your insistence of dealing at the agent Chris instead of solving the problem by talking to the landlord simply baffled me. Seriously, why can't you do both.

What makes you think the landlord is so easy to locate? Told you he is in Taiwan. Your inability to read this repeatedly posted point simply baffles me.

>>>>Get me the money back and fix the problem of the system at your own time.

WOW. So easy, perhaps you would like to come for an interview and become a property agent?


>>>>Coming strong at you? I am certainly doing so

Actually you have no right to. This is a discussion forum and let's just share views. (And hopefully respect each other). Not COME at anyone. I don't owe you money!


>>>>Writing to minister is not wrong but it is just the wrong avenue

Really? Then OBVIOUSLY you missed the entire point that my letter was addressed to the whole executive panel at the Council Of Estate Agents.


>>>>having 10k and above as bad debt is something I can swallow easily.


I ASSURE you that my client will not "swallow" this. Thank you.


It's always easier to TALK, my friend. "Get me my money back". Piece of cake. Wow!

Have you read the posts of our other friends here who lost money? Due to the system?

It's easy to talk and live in la-la land... 'give me back my money'. How about 'with interest', sir?


>>>>To your point, I will never write to the president or minister to complain about a neighbour who decides to do ktv full blast every night

That's a very moot point because your neighbours are NOT governed by anyone, anyway.
Being your neighbour is not performance-specific. It's almost similar to the catwoman story by bro Tituman.




>>>>If every agent take 6 mths at their own pace to recover 10k, it would simply make ppl lose faith in agents. I would prefer motokah type of agents

So you prefer the agents who will advise you, "Sir, this is between you and landlord, none of my business, please go to court, engage your own lawyer to fight for you".

(And wait 8 months to a year with no recourse, sometimes. And in your opinion, that's a better option. Throwing good money after bad. I see).

Again, have you actually READ jimmychoo's comments????


And of course, according to motokah's posts, he clearly told you that this is NOT the responsbility of agents at all. I am taking the case up ON MY OWN ACCORD. So stop talking AS IF I owe you something. I don't. You said you 'read'. I presume you just 'scanned' through instead of really reading. That's why you missed so many things.

I rest my case.

Thanks for your contribution to my thread.

Sunny, I'll do one better for you. I'll give you what you want.


"Sorry to know that you cannot get back your security deposit.
Actually, this is a dispute between landlords and tenants. CEA advised the best way would be to go to the Small Claims Court or to sue for the return of your money. Please find a lawyer to represent you".

JOB DONE! (According to motokah).


You must be happy now. I've fulfilled my responsibility in the 'motokah type of agents' way, advising my clients for a 'speedy' resolution. Here, I have given you exactly what you wanted. Good luck!

Honestly, it is an interesting thread to many.

No doubt your thread has helped some in terms of awareness BUT if it is a discussion topic, then your tone towards those who disagree with you is very condescending.

End of the day, everyone will understand your frustration cos there is money involved but pls also understand that this is a golf forum, not a ST forum.

If you read the rules, we are not particularly fond of political threads here and this one is threading a fine line with the way its going.

For a newbie here, I think credibility will be earned once you make friends here, not type out 'who you know or what you do' to earn cred.

I am just starting to ignore this thread although I did find it really interesting at first.

TS just wants everyone to conform to his thinking and just not receptive to further discussion and alternate opinions.

mUAr_cHEe wrote:

I am just starting to ignore this thread although I did find it really interesting at first.

TS just wants everyone to conform to his thinking and just not receptive to further discussion and alternate opinions.

it is not uncommon.

were u expecting to get a free and open debate with high receptivity of new ideas and opinions?

Master wrote:

were u expecting to get a free and open debate with high receptivity of new ideas and opinions?

honestly, yes?


You can only hope for better, right?

Hi Uber,

I think you missed the points completely cos you never read. Look at motokah's response below. I guess that is proactively solving the problem.

"Suggestions & Points to note:
1) Get a Letter from your client's company to authorise you to act on their behalf to recover the deposit.
2) Your $200 have limited mileage, CEA is not judge nor police to enforce your client's rights.
3) Small Claims Tribunals have jurisdiction to hear claims not exceeding $10,000. ($20K with mutual written consent.)
4) Complain to CEA that Chris Tan maybe working as a real estate sales person without licence.
5) Look for Landlord directly to ask for money, visit his home and office personally. (Check Inlis for address)
6) Last resort if all else fails, get a lawyer to write a Letter of Demand. If still don't pay up, get lawyer to visit Sub Court to issue a Writ of Distress (ie. Stick notices on Landlord's properties and auction items off to recover money)."

Also motokah advocated looking for the landlord:

"You have never spoken directly to the Taiwanese Landlord, how do you know his position regarding this debt?

I strongly suggest you to personally find the Landlord or his legal representative in Singapore. If he is in Taiwan, find his address there and call him"

Does that mean that he is not going the extra mile? In fact I believe by doing the above instead of your "Do you know how hard it is to contact the landlord?" is in fact going extra mile instead of perceiving like whining here.

Basically, co-broking with someone you don't trust, getting your client to be tenant of a landlord that you don't know and couldn't contact. So much for the due dilligence.

Honestly, having a list of rich folks to put their faces against you doesn't really impress me. Everyone who can be in a sales job for years are bound to have rich and famous ppl who are their clients and would give them glowing recommendation. I almost can bet with you that Mr Chris Tan probably would have a list of rich and famous clients to back him up as well.

As what motokah had said,

"I hope you don't take it personally but what you wrote sounds like whining to me.
Complaining is not gonna solve your client's problem, it's your client's actions that counts."

I am commenting strongly simply cos I feel that you are whining and not solving your client's problem. As what S70B had said, this is a golf forum and not a straitstimes forum. This is wrong avenue just like thinking that the minister will respond(you had made a complaint that minister had not responded didn't you). If you think that ministers are so free to respond to your email, so why had he not responded? He is very likely, forwarding this to an aide, who is passing the email downstream and it is probably coming back very slowly.

Bottom line is, ppl had given you very constructive feedback on how you may proceed but you seem to be more keen in getting people to agree that CEA is a joke and our ministers are not doing anything.

I also rest my case as you do not seem to be doing what you are asking me to do, which is to read carefully.

All the best to your clients.

Come on guys, let's be fair to Uber and be a bit more objective here. No doubt that his tone may be slightly strong sometimes (probably due to strong passionate feelings) - but comments towards him weren't really that kind either. I cannot opine on the right/wrong of his mode of handling the agent issue as I'm not an expert, but I do give him credit for the intentions (to try his best to help his client/friend) in doing so.

With all due respect to the regulars/admins/founders whom I have sincere respect for (great guys, IMO, from what I have been following of their replies etc thus far), but I hope this does not get to a 'condemning/bullying' (apologies, pls dun take this description too literally as I'm not articulate enough to come up with a more suitable word ATM) stage because a friend in the forum has been 'lectured'... This thread should revert to how it started (open debate, exchange opinions, suggest alternatives/advice) rather than turn into a 'personal attacks' free-for-all. [P.S. S70B, despite politics/similars not being encouraged, I believe such topics have also popped up occasionally w/o getting flamed e.g. Anwar vid issue. Further, the fact that Sunny(committee) participated in the discussion leads one to believe that this topic may not be in serious breach of forum rules. - no offence hor ]

To Uber: Pls also try to refrain from getting too aggressive in your replies (despite your strong feelings towards this matter) since we're all here to share and discuss. One man's meat may be another's poison (except golf equipment, heh). Methods you employ may not seem workable to others, and vice versa. However, hope you can continue to update on proceedings to so we know if this style of handling works or not. In any case, the value-add that I see is that even if this fails, at least we all know that this is a tried-and-tested (to fail) method - saving time for others contemplating such a move as well. As Thomas Edison once replied when asked how did he succeed in getting the right material for inventing the light bulb: (not exact quote) "Well, I had to succeed after failing a thousand times (with other materials)"

With that, good luck and stay happy to all. Let's enjoy the Masters too, while we're at it eh? Thx!

Hear Hear. +1 to TObe.

This is why I like to hang in GR.. the folks are not like a pack of wolfs in other forums where they just make newbies feel unwelcomed..

true that GR is a private forum and we should respect the rules, but the mods here are still very nice.

the community is also quite active and come from a many different areas of industry/expertise... because "atas people play golf" (kidding)

I learnt quite a bit reading this thread though..

Hahaha I am not atas so I try to play golf to look atas

Agree with you tobe

Let's discuss Augusta instead

haha, great to see that you're as reasonable and level-headed as I believed. *wink

Anyway, I like the current leaderboard except for poor Kaymer. zzzzzzzzz

I am just disappointed with Phil. He's a nice guy and I hope he wins. But -2 isn't that bad yet

Tobe

Thats why I said "we are not particularly fond of political threads here and this one is threading a fine line with the way its going." Instead of "this thread will be shut down because its breaching the rules".


It means that if it carries on, the disagreement will potentially lead to further discontent and the essence will be lost. It reinforces the reasoning why we do not condone political threads too much. It doesn't mean we enforce it by the book.

If you re-read my post, I am only tellin him that for a newbie, try to be friendlier instead of burning bridges in his posts.

Sounding like wat he does will not help in any way of any discussion.

I would have to thank TObe for his post.

Just because someone is new does not mean he should endure personal attacks, come on guys.

Put yourself in my position. For 5-6 years you seen the same thing happening again and again. And now people 'off the streets' tell you what to do and 'think it is so easy'????

Of course, as you forum members are more acquainted with each other... you come to the defense of each other. But as TObe pointed out, is there a need at all?

If there isn't any personal attacks, there won't be any personal retaliation.

You may or may not agree with what I am doing, but do give me the benefit of doubt that I have been here for 5-6 years. I should know better than you.
More than that, share your views. No need to attack me.

Whether a member is new or old has nothing to do with whether his views are right or wrong.

In fact, there is no 'right or wrong'. 'Right or wrong' inevitably results in personal attacks.

And I believe in an open environment, we should have open debates and open discussions, instead of personal attacks or 'coming at you' type of comments, provoking a reaction, of course.

I am of course addressing this to Sunny. Perhaps you are his friend, or foe. It doesn't really matter. I don't know him personally so I have no reason to dislike him at all.

What I am saying is simply..... let us not get personal. Everyone does things differently and there are parts of the story you don't really know.

There are many fair and upright bros here too and it is my pleasure to be amongst you.... I am simply asking for moderation when commenting.... personal attacks.... not going to produce any positive reactions.

And Sunny, I am not 'putting my face next to the rich and famous'. I am just stating that I do have on record clients who testified for me. That would counter to your opinion that I wasn't doing my job the 'right' way. (The way you could have done).

If my comments and replies to you have caused you any discomfort, it was a reactionary behaviour on my part and I admit I should have moderated my comments. Please forgive my strong stance.

I really feel VERY STRONGLY about this matter because these clients of mine... are people that I built a friendship with over the years.... we hang out... we forged friendships..... we have breakfast, lunch, dinner together..... we talk about life, I do my best to change their opinions of Singapore.... (you know how 'one kind' Singapore sometimes look to a new person to the country..... 'kiasu' and etc.... culture shock and all for the new arrivals) and make them finally feel at home. The friendships sometimes extends to extended friends and they even call me up for restaurant recommendations, etc....., even the littlest things, or just to say 'Hi' .

In fact, for some of these friends of mine, I represent the first real face for them in Singapore... for some of them, I am literally their first contact point in Singapore, communicating to them about Singapore even before they fly in, telling them the difference between East Coast and Bukit Timah (for example).... how the great 'Kampung Feel' from Katong to Siglap and Marine Parade differs from the crowd in Jurong West, the reasons they should choose being posted here as opposed to Hong Kong, for example... picking them up at the airport and doing my best to get past the image of 'fast talking salesmen'. Being real friends and offering real advice.


And they have become a part of my life. And now that they like Singapore.... now that they feel welcomed, now that they 'miss Singapore' whenever they fly out for business meetings, now that they are settled, now that they see Singapore as positive instead of 'Singapore is boring'..... now that they have a friend in me.... it is time to leave.

And just before they leave... before I can wish them well and all the best to their next endeavour... Singapore gives them a 'gift' that leaves them with bitterness in their mouth.

Landlord/agent arbitrarily cutting their deposits, citing 'repairs', 'replacements', etc... when two weeks ago during inspection handover, EVERYTHING was fine and signed, hands happily shook.... now the other side is withholding their deposits as a ransom, etc... .

And in the end, this friend that I have cultivated for the past 1 or 2 years.... simply 'takes whatever is left' and goes.


I have seen too much. So, unless you are in the industry, and have a proven solution.... (motokah.... suggest the route of using lawyers. jimmychoo clearly wrote of his experience of HOW that went).... don't think this is a one-off easy process.

By and large, most landlords are fine. But when such things happen to YOUR PERSONAL FRIENDS, in the industry you are doing your most to defend and raise standards..... yet no one can do anything about it.... you will come to the position I am in today.

I have just seen too much. This is definitely not the first such case in my many years in the industry.

I enjoy this board because most people here are very open and sharing and are able to see different viewpoints without the need for personal attacks. Many of us have seen the world and show respect to each other. Let's continue with that. Let's agree to disagree.

I will no longer respond to comments in that personal way as I did to Sunny.
Not in the best interest of anyone.

Best to be friendly in case, Sunny, I may need you to see where my ball went when I tee-off with you some time! (It could be interesting to meet you in person).

It's a discussion and let's leave it as just that, a discussion. Where we share and educate each other, learn from each other. No need to get personal. Right bro?


-------

I have just met with the officials of CEA and it was a good meeting.

I will post a follow up on the meeting. Heading out now.


------

No problem. As the rest of the members would know, I am not someone who bear grudges. Do join us for the 17th game

sunny wrote:

No problem. As the rest of the members would know, I am not someone who bear grudges. Do join us for the 17th game

yup. sunny is not one who bear grudges. i do. i still have 'blah dee bus third ben' saved in my phonebook.

UberGold,

I had stopped commenting your on posts because our thoughts & the way we conduct our business are different. IMO, further discussion would not be productive.

However, you've selectively quoted me ("motokah.... suggest the route of using lawyers.") and I would like to correct that perception.
I wrote 6 suggestions and only the last one got to do with lawyers: "6) Last resort if all else fails, get a lawyer to write a Letter of Demand. If still don't pay up, get lawyer to visit Sub Court to issue a Writ of Distress (ie. Stick notices on Landlord's properties and auction items off to recover money)."
Please re-read my 2nd post in this thread.

From my personal experience, people often only see what they wanted to see, it's not easy to be truely impartial.
Again from my personal experience, I also have met people who are sincere... yet wrong, ie. sincerely wrong.
The above 2 statements applies to me too.

I'm always open to ways to improve the current real estate marketing system, to be of better service to my clients & striving for better efficiency.

******************

Great to see younger players leading the Masters... and 2 koreans just right behind them.
It's gonna be a very interesting 4 days.

Forum disscussions are definitley easily mis interpreted...

Case in point... I have been doing what I do for 41 years this year! (Am I really so old).

Then when someone askes a question, I respond with the easeist, most effective, tried and proven a zillion times solution to the issue...

Then 50 other people will disagree cos they saw different on utube....

So now I say nothing... I wait for the utube advice and all the free tips not to work then you come and pay me $120 an hour for something I gave you free...

Bottom line @ Uber... I feel your frustration, but hang in here, it is a great Forum, and great place to meet friends and playing partners.... I do know Sunny personally and he is a great guy.... as I am sure are you..

Good golfing... Michael Campbell to win the Masters!

mUAr_cHEe wrote:

sunny wrote:

No problem. As the rest of the members would know, I am not someone who bear grudges. Do join us for the 17th game

yup. sunny is not one who bear grudges. i do. i still have 'blah dee bus third ben' saved in my phonebook.

You damn blardee petty! He is long dead and gone!!!

Let me summarize what I feel towards the 2 agents in this thread,

1) Ubergolf - Although I don't enjoy reading your super long posting but I like your passion in your job. Too bad you are quiting. For your passion in your job, I'll give you 2-2 regardless of what hcp you play, swee bo?

2) Motorkah - Your way of answering sound like the old lady that sit in HDB office, she answer with a very very text book kind of tone. 16 years of working in the same line may have blind you in some area but I have to respect your vast experience. For your experience, I am willing to take 2-2 from you regardless of your hcp. Ai mai?

Jimmychoo, cos we haven't played for such a long time together, I am willing to take 9-9 from you. Swee Bo?

sunny wrote:

Jimmychoo, cos we haven't played for such a long time together, I am willing to take 9-9 from you. Swee Bo?

Me too!