Club Fitting - what does it entail?

shotah wrote:

Hi AXIV, is 6 deg flat too flat???

Not if it suits you. Remember 1 minute on your watch is 6 degrees. A small amount but can have a 15 meter difference in direction over 110 yards with a pitching wedge.

SWING PROBLEMS RESULTING FROM IMPROPER SHAFTS

Shafts that are too stiff
exaggerated grips ie strong grip
alignment left of target to allow for slice
exaggerated swing paths ie out side in
overuse of hands and arms
hitting off back foot
balance problems

Shafts that are too weak
alignment right of intended line of flight
erratic ball flight
exaggerated grips ie weak
open clubface positions

Technospaz wrote:

ironfist wrote:

hmmm then given that the 'off the rack' clubs that i want cost almost as much as custom fitted ones, and given that i've only just started and still building my swing, i shouldn't spend so much on the 'off the rack' ones and just buy second hand or cheaper clubs to improve my swing until it's consistent enough for custom fitting?

Sounds like a plan There is a counter-argument, however. If you get a set which isn't suited for you or a cheapo 2nd hand set which doesn't play well, you may not enjoy the game as much. This may deter you from improving and investing in the sport. So, it's a toss-up. I would recommend doing some research and scouting around for a decent 2nd hand set. After you've played a while and you find a passion for the sport, go for a custom-fitted set.

argghh i want the mx200 so bad though.. hahaha and i don't have to worry abt losing interest. i'm already hooked! or maybe i should just get a 2nd hand set of x20s or x18s. will need to spend more thought on this! haha

I just feel that its either i am very short or I am tall with long arms, then I will need 6 deg flat. I thought it was quite a norm because there was a thread somewhere that the 6 deg flat words keep coming out. Thanks AXIV.

G_Man wrote:

jaketang wrote:

shotah wrote:

Guys, AXIV's dad has a shop in Ubi, maybe we can all go down and have a look.

AXIV, possibile to give your dad's Golf Studio address? Also looking forward to your dad's write up next month on the free golf paper.

yo, can i know the address? i working in ubi area.... would like to visit during one of my kopi session...

The Golf Studio.
57 Ubi Ave 1, #08-04 Ubi Centre, Singapore 408936.
Ph : 6844 5661; Fax : 6844 6916. Email : mdhiggs@pacific.net.sg ...

this should be it I think...

BFG is at

Contact Us
Singapore

Blk 1003 Bukit Merah Central
#03-11
Singapore 159836

Tel: (65) 64712272
Fax: (65) 64712221
Email: golf@bigfishes.com

and

Orchid Country Club Driving Range
#01-03

Opening hours:
12.00 pm to 7.00 pm
(Mondays to Saturdays)

u mean AXIV's dad is Mark???

His knowledge of club fitting and the game seems to be on par tho.

ahahha tht means mark join this forum too...

cool....

jaketang wrote:

ahahha tht means mark join this forum too...

cool....

I hope so, more knowledgeable contributors would definitely help the forum.

shotah wrote:

I just feel that its either i am very short or I am tall with long arms, then I will need 6 deg flat. I thought it was quite a norm because there was a thread somewhere that the 6 deg flat words keep coming out. Thanks AXIV.

hi bro shotah...

my friend here asking leh... what's wrong with 6 degrees flat.. why u must mention it so prominently in the forum...

it is not wrong to have clubs with 6 degrees flat leh.. it has done wonders for his swing and now he is hitting the ball straighter and longer... you don't believe one day i can arrange a match for u and him.. then u can see whether he needs 6 degrees flat or not...


by the way.. in case u haven't met him..
here is my friend, ah lee

here's a noob question; is it true cast irons can't be adjusted for lie angle?

and how is club fitting like for shops like golf house or panwest? i know they don't have the myriad of shafts to suit a myriad of swing types and the works like many of the professional club fitting services provide but are they competent? and do they have swing monitors too? haha thanks for bearing with me guys!

ironfist wrote:

here's a noob question; is it true cast irons can't be adjusted for lie angle?

and how is club fitting like for shops like golf house or panwest? i know they don't have the myriad of shafts to suit a myriad of swing types and the works like many of the professional club fitting services provide but are they competent? and do they have swing monitors too? haha thanks for bearing with me guys!

well.. it is true that cast irons cannot be adjusted for lie angle the way forged irons can.. forged irons are easier to adjust for lie angle in the sense that they are malleable and one can easily bend it to the desired lie.

as for club fitting services by golf house and panwest, i reserve my commets as i have never tried it out before. but i feel that it's always better to go to the certified pros who have been doing it as their bread and butter for years. besides, cost-wise, it doesnt really make a great deal of difference.

Can lah, some cast can bend depending on the steel used..but in general, usually cast=no bend.

Jeff at golfhouse is a good experienced clubfitter. I've knowed him since he was at Falcon. Not sure who fits at Panwest now.

Importance of Lie Angles - Coaching point of view
Here is an example of how incorrect lie angles can cause compensations in a golfers swing. From the picture below, the lie angles are too upright for the student

This caused her to adapt her swing at impact to suit the clubs, causing a high hand position and straightening up of the spine angle. (See picture below on the right)


I had Ivan from BFG adjust the lie angles by 3 degrees resulting in my desired impact position as shown in the above picture on the left side.
Prior to the adjustment, I could never get her to compress the ball properly as her clubs would make contact on the heel of the club. As a result she would always straighten out her arms and lift her body up. At first the change in lie angles felt strange to her however the change was well worth it.

Think I may have slight of this problem..
Think its a short guy problem eh.

Actually my woods and driver has this issue..
Any influence to swing like iron?
Can adjust lie?

i heard sometimes the address position and during impact may be different, ie. address with toe up but during impact the lie is correct.

Is it due to compensation or swing type of swing will result in this?

Is we address position to adjust lie, why do we need a lie board? If a person address with the club sitting properly but from a lie board during impact the toe is touching the board, shouldn't that person correct his swing instead of adjusting the lie??

weesern wrote:

i heard sometimes the address position and during impact may be different, ie. address with toe up but during impact the lie is correct.

Is it due to compensation or swing type of swing will result in this?

Is we address position to adjust lie, why do we need a lie board? If a person address with the club sitting properly but from a lie board during impact the toe is touching the board, shouldn't that person correct his swing instead of adjusting the lie??

Good point. Sorry, I am referring to RSS. Generally our players have a lower hand impact position requiring flatter lie angles, such as was the case with Hogan. LSS have a greater variation from address to impact, their shaft angle gets more upright.

Refer to previous thread on Impact to see the differences between the RSS and LSS (The Reteif Goosen example)
http://www.golfrepublic.org/ask-the-pro-f17/impact-t590.htm

proper club fitting can only come about after the golfer have developed a more definite swing. it is therefore correct to say that the swing must be in order before the club can be fitted.

what does club fitting entail? if a golfer is fairly competent in his or her swing but find that there is a lack of confidence in his or her equipment or that the result in their good strike is falling short of expectations, they should talk to a club fitter - have a swing analysis and their equipment evaluated.

if they are hitting straight one third of the time and left and right the other 60% of the time, they should see a qualified teaching pro not a club fitter.

this message is a constant reminder that a club fitter cannot solve a problem thats inherited in a swing. if we do, its only a temporary fix and not a permanent cure.

DGman

DGman wrote:

proper club fitting can only come about after the golfer have developed a more definite swing. it is therefore correct to say that the swing must be in order before the club can be fitted.

what does club fitting entail? if a golfer is fairly competent in his or her swing but find that there is a lack of confidence in his or her equipment or that the result in their good strike is falling short of expectations, they should talk to a club fitter - have a swing analysis and their equipment evaluated.

if they are hitting straight one third of the time and left and right the other 60% of the time, they should see a qualified teaching pro not a club fitter.

this message is a constant reminder that a club fitter cannot solve a problem thats inherited in a swing. if we do, its only a temporary fix and not a permanent cure.

DGman

The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using. A good fitter who has good teaching abilities will give the golfer a club or clubs that reward him when he makes a good swing in to balance. It is the fitters job to help the player to evaluate their own balnce during a fitting and after they receive their new clubs. The player must walk away from the fitting knowing that he or she can maintain balance during each golf swing.
therefore it takes:
1.precision fitting method
2. a fitting professional schooled in swing analysis, club science and precision fitting
3. quality clubs individually constucted.

good teaching professionals know that the equipment students play with either hinder or make it possible to learn a good motion into balance.

AXIV wrote:

The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using. A good fitter who has good teaching abilities will give the golfer a club or clubs that reward him when he makes a good swing in to balance. It is the fitters job to help the player to evaluate their own balnce during a fitting and after they receive their new clubs. The player must walk away from the fitting knowing that he or she can maintain balance during each golf swing.
therefore it takes:
1.precision fitting method
2. a fitting professional schooled in swing analysis, club science and precision fitting
3. quality clubs individually constucted.

good teaching professionals know that the equipment students play with either hinder or make it possible to learn a good motion into balance.

Sorry for my "unprofessionally schooled in swing analysis, club science and precision fitting" views.

But the statement that "The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using"
sounds a little far fetched for me.

I don't disagree that good fitted clubs will definitely help a golfer but the golfer needs to have a decent, repeatable swing first.
I think a good player can use just about any set of clubs and still play better than an average player with a custominzed fitted set of clubs.

Ssquirrel wrote:

AXIV wrote:

The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using. A good fitter who has good teaching abilities will give the golfer a club or clubs that reward him when he makes a good swing in to balance. It is the fitters job to help the player to evaluate their own balnce during a fitting and after they receive their new clubs. The player must walk away from the fitting knowing that he or she can maintain balance during each golf swing.
therefore it takes:
1.precision fitting method
2. a fitting professional schooled in swing analysis, club science and precision fitting
3. quality clubs individually constucted.

good teaching professionals know that the equipment students play with either hinder or make it possible to learn a good motion into balance.

Sorry for my "unprofessionally schooled in swing analysis, club science and precision fitting" views.

But the statement that "The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using"
sounds a little far fetched for me.

I don't disagree that good fitted clubs will definitely help a golfer but the golfer needs to have a decent, repeatable swing first.
I think a good player can use just about any set of clubs and still play better than an average player with a custominzed fitted set of clubs.

For a moment, I thought if the club is fitted properly, it can help people like charles barkley in his swing. If its true, then i think hank haney (hopefully i get the spelling right) can quit trying to teach charles and AXIV's dad can take over liao.

in my opinion there is no such thing as precision fitting unless we are fitting for a robot. even Mr Woods have to tweaked his swing on the forth day to find the fairways.

hence the fundamental (and etiquette) of proper club fitting can only be effective, if the golfer have a rather consistent swing to begin with.

the others are just nice terms to add justification to price.

DGman

AXIV wrote:

The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using.

Disagree. For the majority of average golfers, if they are not swinging well, it stems from a lack of understanding of their swing mechanics or improper techniques, not the equipment.

The golf club is merely a tool for the golfer to play. Getting fitted only makes the game easier for him/her. If you are still setting up wrongly or having that over the top casting move, the Diamana, Fujikura or Matrix fitted for you is not going to save that slice or duff shot of yours.

You can try fitting a brand new individual to the game and I tell you he/she will still have no clue how to play the game better.

'Its the Indian, not the arrow' which I agree. However, your argument that 'the best shooter cannot hit the target with a broken arrow' is also true to a certain extent...provided the shooter knows how to shoot the arrow in the 1st place.

AXIV wrote:

The golf club creates the motion the player makes. If a player is not swinging well it comes back to the equipment he is using.

That does not make sense to me either. If I am swinging bad, I can guarantee it is not the club, it is something I am doing in my swing, usually club face being closed, caused by grip getting too strong. Give me any club you like, it aint gonna fix my swing. Motion is not created by the golf club, it is created by the origin of your swing - the set up. Also what is swinging into balance. Ive seen many swings that finish in balance, however they look terrible prior to that!
During lessons I will demonstrate shots with the nearest club I can find, ladies, mens graphite, even junior clubs. I can hit the ball solid with any of these variations of shafts, lengths, lie angles. Actually hit my best ones with those ladies TM's. Maybe I should invest in a set of those

Club fitting and coaching need to be used hand in hand in my opinion

Yes... Paul can also hit my lefty club better than me...