Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque

nientsu wrote:

billi wrote:

ChrisD wrote:

I hit further than 196m with my 8 iron.
Anything is possible. But mine with turbo charged on my ball after it lands on the cart path.

I also can . I hit 2 times 9!iron 220 .lol

My pw . I hit 150m . 100m on fairway 50m in the air .lol

So what's ur point? Are u saying u damn good or are you just so free u feel like posting something but have nothing to say?

Bro joking with Chris
D

DRGjr72 wrote:

Here is a link to an outfit that has been on the PGA tour for over a decade. I had my irons done by them back in 2001.

There are some small videos and information about what they are speaking of.

http://sstpure.com/index.html

Thanks for this Dan!

Learned something new today and maybe, just maybe have changed my opinion on the validity of the idea.

According to the sstpure twitter feed, 9 out of the top 10 players at the 2012 Players had Pured clubs. That's gotta mean something doesn't it?

I would love to see some Trackman figures comparing say a tour player hitting Pured clubs and non Pured clubs. Center hits, toe hits, the works. That's the kind of evidence I would need to see in order to be able to form a real opinion on the benefits it may or may not provide a tour player, a low handicap, or a novice.

As it stands I don't have that information so I am going to with the opinion that for a tour player who's errors tend to be ever so slight, a meter or two here or there, the technology could be helpful. However, for a novice golfer who's errors can be measured 20 meters at a time, I'm doubtful that it is necessary.

Someone please find me the Trackman numbers from a test done with a PGA Tour player hitting Pured and non Pured clubs, with center hits, toe hits, and heel hits.

No worries.

I have had clubs with and without them and maybe it is more of a mental thing knowing that they are optimized, but I can tell you that the two or three sets I had that were pured/spined were very good and performed very well for me. It could have also been at a time when I was striking it well and it would not have mattered if I had it or not. But after watching the shaft flexed in the spined or pured position versus the non pureed position it was pretty interesting to see the difference in dispersion that the laser made, at least for me.

I also agree with your theory that the benefits might be best suited for top tier players, but without some type of study that shows one way or the other it could still leave questions.

PunkRockPGA and anyone else interested....

Here is a study done by SST:

http://sstpure.com/pdf/sstpure_study_08.pdf

Pretty interesting as clubs were apparently sent to a third party testing facility. Results are in graph form to illustrate benefits and negatives.


***I also want to make perfectly clear that I am neither affiliated, nor attempting to sell any service, with SST pure in any way. The only reason that I mention them is they are used on the PGA Tour and I have used their services personally, so I can speak from experience. Also as a leader in this part of the industry they do have some validity to what they say. Plus it is easy to find info on them via google search.

Hmmm is this video relevant?

Add worldwideweb dot you tube dot com slash in front

watch?v=97NgJjAPPrI&sns=em

DRGjr72 wrote:

PunkRockPGA and anyone else interested....

Here is a study done by SST:

http://sstpure.com/pdf/sstpure_study_08.pdf

Pretty interesting as clubs were apparently sent to a third party testing facility. Results are in graph form to illustrate benefits and negatives.


***I also want to make perfectly clear that I am neither affiliated, nor attempting to sell any service, with SST pure in any way. The only reason that I mention them is they are used on the PGA Tour and I have used their services personally, so I can speak from experience. Also as a leader in this part of the industry they do have some validity to what they say. Plus it is easy to find info on them via google search.

considering that a robot is used gives the result more cred and reliability. just surprised with the glaring comparison of the results. but again this is only achievable if u hv a sound swing. i doubt it will help the majority of weekend golfers. thanks for sharing dan.

Think brad and Dan has sum it up. It do help if u are at a certain level, but it's not like it will help u cut 10-15 strokes when u are struggling to break 100 or 90.

For me, if I pay a fitter to customize my set of club, I make sure he optimize it to the best it can be. Does not matter whether I can cut my score by 10 or 20 strokes. Why would I want to pay and get a half done set! Might as well buy it off the shelf. If a club fitter did not optimize it for his customer, then I think he is not not doing a complete job. Imho a club fitter should not assume that his client will not benefit from it just because he has not attain pro level of play.

I like to 1st declare I'm a customer of sigma golf.. All clubs currently in my bag, except my 3w are from sigma or have been worked on by sigma. So if u think my post is going to be bias.. Stop reading now.

You see, I've decided to make this post coz i see it's incredabley unfair to Seb. I know he is not the most 'lovable' person on earth.. But still, such treatment is totally uncalled for. This is a public forum and I do believe it is a platform for information and knowledge exchange. Can't see what wrong he has done here.

When I 1st met him.. I really did not like him very much.. He dented my ego by commenting on my putting.. As if it's not enuf, he promptly ran down my iron swing. But recognizing myself as a beginner, I kept my ego in check and listen to what he have to say with an open mind. I soon realize what he was saying were the truth.. Did not like the way it was delivered.. But truth it is! And I have learn to respect and even appreciates it.. After all, he did have very sharp eyes to point out mistakes and have excellent instructional ability.. I learn more about golf swings from him den the one on one coach I use to hire.

It's perfectly fine if u prefer ur fitter to be sweet and mother u around.. That's your choice and so, please keep away from sigma.

To those whose highly intelligent minds have problem accepting 7 irons hitting that claimed distance.. Go ask for demo.. It's free. And if u think e flightscope has been specially 'adjusted' (cheat code or watever).. Take over the club immediatelly and try make that shot! If u have enuf club head speed.. Ability to kill the spin.. What's so impossible? I was just there this afternoon, he hit a 180m followed by a 189m with a $28 pink ladies 7i. A golf pro was present and he took over the club and attempts to make that same shot.. If memory serves me right.. 146m was the best he could do. I tried and i did 126m. Dun just take my word for it.. Go challenge him!

As for service, I rate sigma 10/10! I've fitted other clubs b4.. I know the sale bs.. Deleting 'miss shots' from flightscope and tell u ur new shaft pick has better 'dispersion' and 'higher clubhhead speed', I've seen them b4.. And so when I was quoted a lump sum to fit my new set of irons, I expected similar sales bs.. Let me try a few shafts, meddle around with the flightscope data and push me the cheapest/most profitable shaft.. But I was in for a surprise, on top of testing many different shafts on his demo clubs, he actually fitted 4 different, brand new shafts into my new heads just so I can confirm that was the feel and performance I wanted! As u can see below, I ended up with TC flighted, not exactly a very 'economical' choice. For this, he likely have to thin down his margin, scrap 3 brand new shafts and 4 new grips! Plenty of respect there as this demonstrated his genuine concern for customer instead of maximizing profits.

After sales.. Another 10/10. Not only did he fit my clubs, adjust them as I progress, he even coach me! And frankly, the little $ I spend there, I really dun see how and why he should spend his effort on me. My only conclusion, he is very willing to share his knowledge to those who is open to learn.

For those who do not believe in fittings.. U r entitled to ur opinion. But as far as I'm concerned, it benefitted me tremendously. As a beginner golfer, my swings are still developing, fitting help me overcome certain challenges at different stage of my development. When I 1st got my driver, I was not closing my club face fast enuf and fitting helped me straighten up my drives. But as I develop my swings, my drives become lower and he made adjustments to my club to optimize my launch angle. I can see many golfers benefiting from such service. And btw, professionally fitted clubs do not necessary cost more den off the rack clubs and I strongly believe they represent great value! If u r not comfortable with sigma, I recommend u visit other reputable fitters to experience this for yrself.

Thank you for reading my very long singlish post.

duffader wrote:

Think brad and Dan has sum it up. It do help if u are at a certain level, but it's not like it will help u cut 10-15 strokes when u are struggling to break 100 or 90.

regardless of level a sound equipment helps.
however like i said before you are only as strong as your weakest link. If the weakest link is your technique no matter how good the equipment is you'll not gain a lot of benefit from it. It helps but it will not help you fix the root cause of the problem, i.e. the technique.

I think fitting, spinning, floing, puring or whatever you choose to do is up to the individual. Yes there are associated benefits with many of the offerings, whether they be mental, functional, or a little of both.

At the end of the day go to a reputable fitter, club maker, golf shop, etc. and get whatever it is you want. You are the one buying the clubs, reshafting, getting optimized, or whatever. The job of the fitter, golf pro, etc. is to look at what you do and try to help you be the best you can. Whether that is via equipment, technique help, or some combination of the before mentioned.

There are merits for spine alignment and I am really surprised not one of the shaft companies or OEM company's has licensed this from SST and offered it to their customers, even on a custom build basis after they have been fit. I think it would be something they might do well with and adds a differentiator from the competition.

There is a big difference between the best players in the world and the guy or gal who shoots 100, but the market is there to offer golfers the choice if they want to be treated like a tour pro, regardless of ability. Like I mentioned before, there are merits associated with these services and yes there might be greater benefits to certain levels of golfers depending on what you do, but peace of mind is a great thing and can really make a difference when you are out on the golf course. Knowing your clubs are optimized for your game can offer huge benefits. I have seen marked improvement in many of my students as a result of proper fitting and lessons. It does work, especially with reinforced practice, for many different ability levels of golfers.

Just make sure to go to someone you trust, you know is knowledgeable, and will be there after the sale.

DRGjr72 wrote:

Just make sure to go to someone you trust, you know is knowledgeable, and will be there after the sale.

This is very true indeed.

Honestly...I am confused but likely it's due to my lack of golfing proficiency ,......so what and how can I reduce my score....by 5-10 strokes?

Duval_S wrote:

Honestly...so what and how can I reduce my score....by 5-10 strokes?

D, buy miura....

Duval_S wrote:

Honestly...I am confused but likely it's due to my lack of golfing proficiency ,......so what and how can I reduce my score....by 5-10 strokes?

1. Understand your body mechanics, and what it does in a golf swing. Optimize your body movements.
2. Understand your equipment, and how they react in your golf swing. Optimize all your 14 clubs.
3. If possible, choose the right golf ball, right shoes, drink the right amount of water and isotonic drink before and during a round of golf. Preventing dehydration is the KEY.

My humble contribution,

(PS: There are much more details to add on the above, for those interested, i can pm the books titles and links to read on, or u can T loan one of the video in my library )

I tend to associate / compare costs vs value. Can someone share a rough estimate how much it will cost per shaft? Any difference if it's graphite vs steel and woods vs irons? Thanks

slinger wrote:

Duval_S wrote:

Honestly...so what and how can I reduce my score....by 5-10 strokes?

D, buy miura....

Or buy a zen.... hahaha. Joking ah.
But i think easier to cut strokes by overcoming the simpler parts first. Eric gives some good putting advice i heard.

Dan nailed it!

SigmaOne took a little bit of a beating on here, not necessarily deserved, but you know what they say. "Any press is good press", or something like that.

My advice to anyone who is about to start the journey that is this thread would be to check out the initial post / videos. Then skip everything else until you get to DRGjr72's recent post, then move on with your day.


Enjoy what's left of your weekend everyone!

On the 1st Video - Shaft Spine

There are a lot of video on youtube regarding the technique to find the spine. I find this is the one that is the most simple, straight to the point to illustrate about the spine behavior.

Why look for the spine? So that we know the shaft will always bend at the same point consistently along that particular axis, rather that rotating around it (Then the torque of the shaft is of little significance then). The consistency of this is much depends on the quality of the shaft. A good shaft (most times expensive, but not necessary) will perform better than a lower quality one. At the same time, u can observed the bend point (KICK) in the shaft, and if u are sharp enough, u can actually realize how to load the shaft or lag yr club in your swing, to optimize it to maximize your distance.

This is a simple procedure, does cost anything.
1.U can compare the differences from one brand to another of the same KICK pt, Torque Factor, Weight. ($ is a also a factor)
2.After u decided on the brand, then u can compare the different series or model of the same brand. (can skip if u know what u want)
3. After u decided on the model, the u can compare the different weight, or even flexes

The best is to have 3 options, cos after you put in the head, the dynamic of the shaft change. Do the same for the 3 shafts, video them and compare in slow motion.

A shaft can look the same on the outside(graphics) but the quality of it is what lies underneath. Eg. The shaft on some drivers that sell off the shelves is very different from the aftermarket ones. This can be easily verified. (If u have the budget to order the 500 pcs of the same shaft, same specifications, they can even spray your name and face on it LOL)

Another humble contribution

(Sidetrack: I have not finish my presentation, why jump the GUN. Patience )

duffader wrote:

Think brad and Dan has sum it up. It do help if u are at a certain level, but it's not like it will help u cut 10-15 strokes when u are struggling to break 100 or 90.

Personally i believe it helps more newbies than the pros. Pros are very aware and in control of their swing. They can play it left handed sometimes. They are able to notice the clubs' behavior and compensate their swing during the round even, whereas the newbie dont even know its them or the clubs, or the weather.

A well fitted Driver helps the newbie avoid water hazards and OB, if they know even if they miss their shots, its always on that side of fairways, blocking out the penalties. Avoid the water and save min 2 to 3 strokes.

A well fitted sand wedge ensures u always get out, saving u another few strokes.

A well fitted putter helps u to pace the greens and judge the distance with better feedback, saves another few strokes.

A well fitted irons set minimizes duffing (Topping is acceptable), saving another few strokes.

This is my personal experience. Fitted clubs helps me to understand my Equipment better, and i perform better, knowing their limits and what they do. As i progress, i upgrade them for better accuracy , better feel, better control, better distances, when i know i am ready to appreciate what i paid for.

Some may agree some may not , and it is fine. Hopes it do help some out there, that's my point.

Happy Golfing

SigmaOne wrote:

duffader wrote:

Think brad and Dan has sum it up. It do help if u are at a certain level, but it's not like it will help u cut 10-15 strokes when u are struggling to break 100 or 90.

Personally i believe it helps more newbies than the pros. Pros are very aware and in control of their swing. They can play it left handed sometimes. They are able to notice the clubs' behavior and compensate their swing during the round even, whereas the newbie dont even know its them or the clubs, or the weather.

A well fitted Driver helps the newbie avoid water hazards and OB, if they know even if they miss their shots, its always on that side of fairways, blocking out the penalties. Avoid the water and save min 2 to 3 strokes.

A well fitted sand wedge ensures u always get out, saving u another few strokes.

A well fitted putter helps u to pace the greens and judge the distance with better feedback, saves another few strokes.

A well fitted irons set minimizes duffing (Topping is acceptable), saving another few strokes.

This is my personal experience. Fitted clubs helps me to understand my Equipment better, and i perform better, knowing their limits and what they do. As i progress, i upgrade them for better accuracy , better feel, better control, better distances, when i know i am ready to appreciate what i paid for.

Some may agree some may not , and it is fine. Hopes it do help some out there, that's my point.

Happy Golfing

Thanks Sigma, I think we are in different span, if all of that can help, then good for the NEWBIE, cos its a easier way. I went through the hard way by looking for a good pro. Although he doesn't feel that equipment has a great impact but it do help if u find out if the club is too heavy or too long for me. But knowing te fundamentals, it allow me to hit all sorts of clubs be it stock or fitted.


I do agree that if a golfer is changing equipment, it's definitely more worth it to get it fitted properly. I just felt that are too many golfers out there that when they hook a few shots or slice a few shots, the next thing u know is they are looking at their equipment.

Anyway, I am glad that you have your believers. I was in that route before but now I think otherwise.

Happy fitting!

siaokao wrote:

To those whose highly intelligent minds have problem accepting 7 irons hitting that claimed distance.. Go ask for demo.. It's free. And if u think e flightscope has been specially 'adjusted' (cheat code or watever).. Take over the club immediatelly and try make that shot! If u have enuf club head speed.. Ability to kill the spin.. What's so impossible? I was just there this afternoon, he hit a 180m followed by a 189m with a $28 pink ladies 7i. A golf pro was present and he took over the club and attempts to make that same shot.. If memory serves me right.. 146m was the best he could do. I tried and i did 126m. Dun just take my word for it.. Go challenge him!

Hi bro,

1st of all, no offend intention... I'm just confused by the flightscope...
Was there some time back with a fren who is playing averaging ard 90-95.
My fren tested out a few iron shafts with a 7i and average result :
1. speed : 82 mph
2. spin : 2000 rpm
3. vert height : 21 deg
4. carry : 145 m
5. final distance : 180 m

One of the questions asked was if my fren a 10 hcp? Which obviously not(for a 90-95 player).
Moreover, this fren of mine has never hit a 7i more than 150m at the course...
Appreciate if u can advise on my confusion.

Once again, no offend intention. In anyway if I've offended anyone, I apologize in advance...

3131T wrote:

siaokao wrote:

To those whose highly intelligent minds have problem accepting 7 irons hitting that claimed distance.. Go ask for demo.. It's free. And if u think e flightscope has been specially 'adjusted' (cheat code or watever).. Take over the club immediatelly and try make that shot! If u have enuf club head speed.. Ability to kill the spin.. What's so impossible? I was just there this afternoon, he hit a 180m followed by a 189m with a $28 pink ladies 7i. A golf pro was present and he took over the club and attempts to make that same shot.. If memory serves me right.. 146m was the best he could do. I tried and i did 126m. Dun just take my word for it.. Go challenge him!

Hi bro,

1st of all, no offend intention... I'm just confused by the flightscope...
Was there some time back with a fren who is playing averaging ard 90-95.
My fren tested out a few iron shafts with a 7i and average result :
1. speed : 82 mph
2. spin : 2000 rpm
3. vert height : 21 deg
4. carry : 145 m
5. final distance : 180 m

One of the questions asked was if my fren a 10 hcp? Which obviously not(for a 90-95 player).
Moreover, this fren of mine has never hit a 7i more than 150m at the course...
Appreciate if u can advise on my confusion.

Once again, no offend intention. In anyway if I've offended anyone, I apologize in advance...

We have tested the system very thoroughly myself and invited a few local spga pros to test it too. Both using our clubs and their very own.

I will very much like to see your recording on all the shots made with each shaft, and the averaging of the data. Most times we do not use average for different shaft. We used an ave for each individual shaft, then we switch and start a new recording.

Hitting it with Fightscope in an ideal conditions, off a perfect lie (practise mat) give a better result is no surprise, likewise u can hit better in the range but not on course. I will not be the only one who experience this.

A golfer who can hit his drives past 280m usually can be mistaken as a low handicapper or even a pro, with a ferocious swing, very impressive. But they may not be able to chip, putt, or even play a decent bunker shot. A comment made cannot be used to summarize a fitting session. My comment may just be a nice compliment as encouragement. (I am not always brutally blunt LOL).

Furthermore, it is our practice to insist the client to bring along theirs clubs for comparing results, with their shoes and a towel. Most of them takes a few sessions to pick out the ideal shaft, over our demo of :
Matrix Studio, Program ,Radix graphite shafts,
Rifle flighted 4.5,5.0,5.5,6.0,6.5,
True Temper DG Tour Concept Flighted R/S/X flex,
Mitsubishi Rayon Bassara, Fubuki,
NSpro Modus 3, 750GH, 850GH, 950GH,
Graphite Design TourAD
Aerotech Steel Fibre
KBS C-Taper, Tour, Tour 90
Project X Steel / Graphite

2000 is too little spin for a 7 iron. 6000 to 7000 will be about right.

DGman

SigmaOne wrote:

3131T wrote:

siaokao wrote:

To those whose highly intelligent minds have problem accepting 7 irons hitting that claimed distance.. Go ask for demo.. It's free. And if u think e flightscope has been specially 'adjusted' (cheat code or watever).. Take over the club immediatelly and try make that shot! If u have enuf club head speed.. Ability to kill the spin.. What's so impossible? I was just there this afternoon, he hit a 180m followed by a 189m with a $28 pink ladies 7i. A golf pro was present and he took over the club and attempts to make that same shot.. If memory serves me right.. 146m was the best he could do. I tried and i did 126m. Dun just take my word for it.. Go challenge him!

Hi bro,

1st of all, no offend intention... I'm just confused by the flightscope...
Was there some time back with a fren who is playing averaging ard 90-95.
My fren tested out a few iron shafts with a 7i and average result :
1. speed : 82 mph
2. spin : 2000 rpm
3. vert height : 21 deg
4. carry : 145 m
5. final distance : 180 m

One of the questions asked was if my fren a 10 hcp? Which obviously not(for a 90-95 player).
Moreover, this fren of mine has never hit a 7i more than 150m at the course...
Appreciate if u can advise on my confusion.

Once again, no offend intention. In anyway if I've offended anyone, I apologize in advance...

We have tested the system very thoroughly myself and invited a few local spga pros to test it too. Both using our clubs and their very own.

I will very much like to see your recording on all the shots made with each shaft, and the averaging of the data. Most times we do not use average for different shaft. We used an ave for each individual shaft, then we switch and start a new recording.

Hitting it with Fightscope in an ideal conditions, off a perfect lie (practise mat) give a better result is no surprise, likewise u can hit better in the range but not on course. I will not be the only one who experience this.

A golfer who can hit his drives past 280m usually can be mistaken as a low handicapper or even a pro, with a ferocious swing, very impressive. But they may not be able to chip, putt, or even play a decent bunker shot. A comment made cannot be used to summarize a fitting session. My comment may just be a nice compliment as encouragement. (I am not always brutally blunt LOL).

Furthermore, it is our practice to insist the client to bring along theirs clubs for comparing results, with their shoes and a towel. Most of them takes a few sessions to pick out the ideal shaft, over our demo of :
Matrix Studio, Program ,Radix graphite shafts,
Rifle flighted 4.5,5.0,5.5,6.0,6.5,
True Temper DG Tour Concept Flighted R/S/X flex,
Mitsubishi Rayon Bassara, Fubuki,
NSpro Modus 3, 750GH, 850GH, 950GH,
Graphite Design TourAD
Aerotech Steel Fibre
KBS C-Taper, Tour, Tour 90
Project X Steel / Graphite

Thx for the explaination...