Stack and Tilt

TourSwing wrote:

nutty88 wrote:

Thanks Tourswing for the information. Will certainly consider.

Are you on S&T as well?

Not a 100%, but I have incorporated bits and pieces ... never knew what compression felt like until I tried S and T ... changed my game forever!

I agree with you on the compression and it does feel very very good. It has also helped me on my chipping around greens. I used to chip with weight forward but spine tilt away from target and most of the time I duffed it.

It is indeed changing my game and I simply love it. As for the critics on back injury, any golf swing method will also cause injury if doing it the wrong way.

shamusan wrote:

anyone wanna order this together?

Sham, I don't mind ordering it together but not sure if we can get a better deal with group buy. Let's start the ball rolling: -

1. Sham
2. Nutty

pocketace wrote:

Just sharing. Like with any swing change, expect your scores to plummet until you ingrained the new swing. One must commit time to practice, to persevere, to get coaching.

Surprisely my score didn't plummet at all and in fact played relatively well last Sunday when I used S&T first time on the course. However, I did spend about a month practising at the range and also air-swing at home in front of a big mirror to make sure I get the correct moves. The new TM Manta belly putter helps too!

I certainly can't say if my next game will be better or worst though but I am sticking to it.

What a stupid swing method!

How dare they propose that if you move a shorter distance sideways away from the ball, it reduces the margin of error when returning the clubface to the ball.

So what if the proven basis of quality control (i.e. consistency) is to reduce the number of variables and/or the individual variation of each variable. Everybody knows that the golf swing has got nothing to do with science, be it bio-mechanics, physics or whatever other discipline.

How can reducing sideways motion increase your chance of consistent contact? Preposterous! How can shortening anything be good? This is golf, anything longer or bigger is better! So what if for anything else in life, when we want to be more accurate, we move closer to what we are working on or move the fulcrum of the tool we are using toward the surface of the material we are trying to affect. This is golf! Physics and leverage are not relevant, because an expert said it (or I read an expert on the internet or a magazine), it must be true.

Also, everybody knows that you must transfer your weight (but did they mention all? I can't remember) to your back foot on the back swing and then transfer it back to the front foot (umm ... how much?) on the downswing. So what if I need to make a big move off the ball during my backswing and I need to make the same move (really? are u sure? exactly the same? or slightly more?) back toward the ball to get into a good impact position, after all, all the best pros swing that way (to my untrained eye).

(I think) Jack swings that way, Tiger swings that way, I am sure I can swing that way as well. After all, how much better can they be? Even though I can't even compare with the pro teaching me who has been playing the game for years at a high level, maybe I have some hidden talent and if I find a good tip on the internet or in a magazine, I can also turn professional as well. After all, how hard can golf be? Even though never in a million years can I imagine that I can play football like Messi or Ronaldo, maybe I have a small chance of being a PGA tour player.

The traditional method is always the best! Even if at one point in time, the traditional view was that 1) The earth was flat ... followed by 2) The earth is the center of the universe and everything else rotates around it ... and that the concept of continuous improvement is inherent in Nature (also known as evolution) BUT golf is different.

I will continue doing what I have always done and I know I will get better (but it seems that my handicap has not changed for years). Even if Albert Einstein once mentioned that Insanity could be defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, who is he anyway? How smart can he be? Not much smarter than me lah ...

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Our dear Derek has been drinking...

@Derek, stupid or not, it is working for me. Or maybe you need to have stupid people like me to learn a stupid method.

And by the way, have you tried the method yet? It is easy to critise and call it stupid but if you have not even try, then why the negative comments? This swing method certainly opposes traditional way to hitting the golf balls. I came across it few years back and didn't even think of adopting it. But lately I was more opened to new ideas since I have not been playing well, so I started using it and have found some success.

Not drinking but drunk

maybe having a bad day today. I never see him got so up set before for such an nice guy

Bro nutty88, think Derek was being tongue-in-cheek, not negative. He was just pointing out the obvious truths in the SnT teaching (less biomechanical variation, not being entrenched in old teaching ways)...in his own way of course.

Like I said, he's probably been drinking.

@entity, I have misread Derek's message due to speed reading. Guess I need to improve not just on my golf swing but my english as well.

I don't think someone can write so well when drunk. I certainly can't.

entity wrote:

Like I said, he's probably been drinking.

sshhhhh ... don't tell my boss *HIC*

Personally have tried the S&T after reading the book last year, still using some of the swing.
The DVDs should be quite interesting watching, will be interested in the driver section as the book did not go in depth on drivers.

If TourSwing is using it, u better believe that it gives you distance.LOL

Derek wrote:

entity wrote:

Like I said, he's probably been drinking.

sshhhhh ... don't tell my boss *HIC*

he is not drunk la... he just doing that to justify adjusting his hcp la......

blee wrote:

Derek wrote:

entity wrote:

Like I said, he's probably been drinking.

sshhhhh ... don't tell my boss *HIC*

he is not drunk la... he just doing that to justify adjusting his hcp la......

Excuse me SSUURR ... I am a VERY comfortable with a handicap of 18, no need further adjustment ...

Derek wrote:

blee wrote:

Derek wrote:

entity wrote:

Like I said, he's probably been drinking.

sshhhhh ... don't tell my boss *HIC*

he is not drunk la... he just doing that to justify adjusting his hcp la......

Excuse me SSUURR ... I am a VERY comfortable with a handicap of 18, no need further adjustment ...

BUAYA!

sob wrote:

Personally have tried the S&T after reading the book last year, still using some of the swing.
The DVDs should be quite interesting watching, will be interested in the driver section as the book did not go in depth on drivers.

If TourSwing is using it, u better believe that it gives you distance.LOL

Agree with you that it is not easy to launch the ball off the driver using S&T. So far, my ball flight is quite low but it does roll a lot! This is also due to the fact that I am using a 8.5* driver. Thnk I should try to tee off using my 3w.

Here we go again from the website:


Critics: What They Say

Top criticisms:

You cannot hit the driver:

This procedure makes the descent on the ball to steep, so one cannot hit the driver high enough.

Troy Matteson is currently in the top 10 of the driving distance statistic on the PGA Tour, marking the highest of his career. Mike Weir added 8 yards to his driving distance with Stack & Tilt while increasing his world ranking 30 spots . Aaron Baddeley hit 8 percent more fairways using Stack & Tilt while increasing his world ranking 160 spots. Charlie Wi increased his total driving by 100 spots while increasing his world ranking 150 spots during the past few seasons. These are merely a few examples.  Different players need different things, because the Stack & Tilt system is a system broad enough to explain all swings it can help people with different needs as illustrated by this variety of tour players. Furthermore, there is a fundamental misconception on what it takes to hit the ball high while still hitting it straight.

pocketace wrote:

My personal experience after taking a bunch of lessons with them to tryout the RSS with the now defunct Gary Edwin and Peter Senior Academy at OCC many moons ago - its not for everyone

At one point our national team were all coached by the RSS coaches. So there are good things bout that method. It was a joy for me to watch the RSS players strike the ball. Effortless power!

My personal take is that for someone starting the game, it's great to learn RSS. for those who has been playing for a while, it's a bit challenging to switch to RSS. I gave up. Not enough time and talent to make the switch.

Just sharing. Like with any swing change, expect your scores to plummet until you ingrained the new swing. One must commit time to practice, to persevere, to get coaching. Else it will be a long hard road as I think RSS is quite a radically different way to swing. But those who achieve it will enjoy the fruits of labour! Good luck!

More links on RSS and SnT
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2007-06/stackandtilt3_gd0706
http://www.golflink.com/about_4492_stack-tilt-golf-method.html
http://www.golftipsmag.com/instruction/full-swing/lessons/its-a-right-sided-swing.html

If you do remember I was part of the national team that used RSS and unfortunately the swing method isn't for me. Stack and tilt isn't for me either. I have my reservations about both methods but I'd be wrong to criticise.

I am however a firm believer that not everyone can swing the same due to various reasons (different body types, injuries, other physical limitations) therefore you'd find certain methods could or could not work for each individual. This is because I have seen tour players and students make methods work.

Different strokes for different folks!

@jhan, well said. Sad that there are teaching pros who told me that S&T is not the way to go. Funny thing is that when I first mentioned S&T, I was asked what is that. Then when I explained, I immediately got negative comments. A lot of pros will just want to teach us their method without considering if it will suit the golfer or not.

Just an update on my journey with S&T. I feel that I am getting closer and it has improved my ball striking a lot. Played relatively well the last 4-5 games except I guess I have neglected my short game. The misses are more predictable and I have not encountered duffing, topping nor hooking my shots. There were few occassions in which I saw increased in my distance by one club and the feeling of impact was sensational.

nutty88 wrote:

Just an update on my journey with S&T. I feel that I am getting closer and it has improved my ball striking a lot. Played relatively well the last 4-5 games except I guess I have neglected my short game. The misses are more predictable and I have not encountered duffing, topping nor hooking my shots. There were few occassions in which I saw increased in my distance by one club and the feeling of impact was sensational.

Bro Nutty,

good for you, can post some vidz for sharing?
BTW do you keep you left arm low in the back swing, seems that the left arm does not go too high in the back swing for S&T.
Nice and compact

hi Sob,

The left arm does go low and inside on the takeaway, and the left arm is parallel to the shoulder plane at the top of the back swing. I am still trying not to overswing too much which gives me better control on the down swing. I realised that the setup is extremely important and what i generally do is to have a balance set up, i.e. even weight on both feet, then I will push my weight and shoulders towards my left so as to have the forward tilt.

I may not be 100% S&T at the moment, e.g. on the follow through, I have not master the art of thrusting my hips towards the target, and I also have not learn how to pause at the end of the follow through, so it is still a WIP.

As for video, too shy to post lah.