Nicole Seah: unscripted, unrehearsed interview @ Aljunied market

I call BS. Dinosaurs went extinct because of change.
G man's arguments are full of holes. but as this is not a political forum, we should just not discuss it here.

anyway people can surf elsewhere to get their alternative political news.
And as to PRs who comment about the 2 girls who have not eaten enough salt, well, you aren't voting are you? (No offence since you are a nice guy. Really!)
Its a political grandstand that's gone ridiculous I have to agree though.

As to NS, I feel that it must be reviewed constantly. I may even think that it has become a dinosaur. what was survival has now become a liability. anyone with half a brain will understand the security reality in singapore.

End of rant.

I know everyone is entitled to be an arm chair critic. but seriously, if you really want to convince people, do it in a non golf/private forum, do it with proper research and presentation and not some conceptual half thought out arguments, and lastly, do it on some political party's platform. (That's you G Man!)

Oh come on.... The way u guys are talking about politics is like u guys talking about golf swing, what to do, what not to do. Seriously, what do we know? There are bound to be loopholes here and there. And yes, there are things that can be done better.

But if you all think that there are many things that you are not happy with, there is a better way than voting for the rightful one. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO IMMiGRATE. Be contented with wat we have. After a dew decades of hard work, u think they will allow the inexperience one to take care of it?

Come on, golf forum leh, we should be talking about arranging games and what kind of bets are on the table. I am not bothered abt politics, I am just concern who and when I will be playing golf. High standard of living, then we should not be talking abt playing golf then.

duffader wrote:

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO IMMiGRATE.

Should be "Emigrate"

Haha... sorry, my england is crap.. maybe that's one reasons i dun enjoy politics and whining too....

Okay okay....
Three things I agree with 100%.
1. Golf forum, talk about golf....
2. Yes, it should be Emigrate.
3. Duffy, your England see peh jia lat. But okay la... mine also one piece one piece...

And Mizzy, I would be really greatful for a PM so that my arguement flaws came be made know to me.. After all, an election is around the corner.

My last Rant,

After reading the manifestoes from the various parties... (Ideal reading material for insomniacs)
My concern isnt really who gets voted in, rather who is deserving of the job and whether that person gets voted in...

To have a statement and to have a plan are very different things.
I have no intention of voting in favour of Change for the sake of Change. I want to see a plan... And I hope my fellow Singaporean feel the same way...

Look at our world today. On a moderate basis, we have the US Tea party political system, works, but has its major draw backs.. Look at the health care reform bill that Obama got thru verses what was originally planned.
Then on the democratic extreme, we have India. Where literally anyone can be a politicial. If memory serves me correctly, there are as many politicians there as there are votes in Aljunied consti....

In the pass few weeks, I have been shocked that people are willing to vocalise their voting intentions so openly... Most of the time its for the opposition, which is all good and fine...
But.. And this is a mega BUT... when asked why, most dont know... Its always, "I want change", "I want checks and balances"... It would be nice to hear a reply such as: "Cos they have a good plan. I have studied it and I think this is better for Singapore, for my family, for my friends and if god be willing, ME!"

We all want change, but its worrying that most, myself included, cant really put a finger on the changes we are after. I want change, but I want to know what the ultimate goal is likely to be.. BEFORE I sign on the dotted line...

G Man,

to indulge in your post, and to share, a PM benefits no one.

you do realise that the PAP's manifesto is even more vague?
who is deserving of the job you ask? I shall explain why it is not a matter of the person deserving of the job.

you see, in a parliamentary democracy, any policy eminating from anyone, once implemented, is the sole responsibility of the PM and his cabinet/party. Therefore, the question of who is deserving of the job becomes rhetorical, because only the PM is deserving of the job.

A statement and a plan.... Pray tell, do you know what PAP's plan is? Because if you do, I'd sure like to hear it. So you still think PAP has a plan? More good years? That's the plan?

In the running of government, most technocrats and administrators knows the system better to layout plans. Did you know that LKY was dead set against Changi Airport to replace Paya Lebar? There are many other things that PAP has taken credit for that those plans do not come from them.

About USA and India, we are not talking about political systems.. so I don't know where you are taking this.

People are unhappy. They know they are unhappy. They may not be able to verbalise their anger, but that does not mean their anger is illogical or unreasonable. People are intuitive and the last time I checked, telling people who you will vote for is not illegal, it is something they want to say to let their friends and relatives share in their emotions, their connections, their feelings, their relationships and their plight with the community.

If you can't figure out what the change is and what that change is about, then you have a problem that only you need to find out for yourself. Stop trying to ask other people hoping that they can give you an answer you are looking for.

But I think you have missed the point totally. This is not about change, this election is about stopping the wrong policies that have made people unhappy, widened the income disparity, mismanaging the economy for singaporeans who have felt the pain of 2 consecutive recessions, misleading policies that hurt rather than help singaporeans.

I'm afraid many people have been influenced by LKY's we cannot anyhow "change" government. we will become foreign workers, our mothers and sisters will become maids.
Change has now become a poisoned word. Now people are fearful of change.

There is a common wisdom, with any thing in the future, be it with or without change, nobody can say what is the future or likely outcome. It has always been like this. If one thing is for certain, it is change. (and change should not be a frightened word)

all my feelings towards the gahmen expressed in 1 song:

http://www.golfrepublic.org/t11053-you-dont-feel-paiseh-i-also-sia-suay#198171

G_Man wrote:

On the issue of housing, affordability is a very subjective issue. Yes, we can build HDBs like there is no tomorrow. sell them at such cheap prices that almost everyone can buy one.
But will all those that are currently vested please let me know how much you are willing to see your HDB drop by? cos in the world of demand and supply, when there is too much supply, you might demand a more stable pricing market, with ironically, less supply.

On the topic of inflation, there are limited means to address this.
In simple economics, one would have to hike interest rate to curb inflation, again, who wants a higher cost of owning property and/or a car? wow. back to the property thingy again...

Yes, the gov can make our SGD much stronger. maybe 1.15 agst the USD... Wow wouldnt that be great? a super strong SGD. But heh, at those levels, there is a MODERATE risk, that Foreign Direect investments will all but come to an end, and we would have priced our little dot off the map all together... And then companies will have to move off shore, jobs in Singapore will be lost. Unemplyment will creep higher over a protracted period of time. Houses will be cheaper as people are forced to fire sale... Well, at least property may come off....

Housing.. have you had your head in the sand during the sb-prime debacle?
Nobody said anything about making hdb flats dirt cheap.
Appealing to people already seeing paper profits on the hdb if they want to see prices drop is mischievous and a scarecrow tactic. Unless you are in negative equity, the bank will repossess your hdb if you cannot top up.
Why is an inflating housing price a dangerous game to play?
because like the stock market, you need more and more suckers to support the market and higher and higher price.
but unlike the market, you cannot cash out unless you emigrate.
your borrowed argument about less supply to stabilise the market is a disingenious subterfuge which is actually causing singaporen population numbers to drop because they are forced to delay starting a family.

Inflation wise, singapore does not play with the interest rate mechanism.
appreciating the SGD is not a good way to fight inflation as the largest chunk of inflation comes from property inflation and passing of rental costs to consumers. Both of these costs are not imported. NOT IMPORTED!
How effective can an appreciating SGD fight a domestic inflationary factor!???

G_Man wrote:

The term Means Testing refers to the discover of what the average can afford. This in my opinion is not an ideal situation for the Singapore medical profession: Here are my reasons:
1. Assuming that current medical cost are priced at a SUB Mean level.
2. As singapore is a very fracture society interms of income and spending habits, A means tested result will be biased to statistics that are based solely on discoverable incomes. ie: gainfully employed, IRAS based info...

IF we are to assume that health care is now priced at SUB mean leavel, means testing based medical cost will have resultants:
a: Health care cost will go up across the board.
How will this affect broader singapore? Well this will mean the rich are no subsidised and the poor are now penalised. I doubt this is the intented results.

b: Lets assume that medical cost here are now priced above the mean, ie: higher then the average singaporean can afford:
Then obviously, the cost of medical intervention will reduce. but in turn, so will the talent in the public medical services pool.... Why would a qualified doc chose to do public service medicine when the private sector pays better? oh yeah, arent most our nurses imports now? but wait... the foreign influx that is stealing our jobs is another topic....

So the ideal will be a free floating flexible system right? ie you pay for what you want. how you want it. And if you cant, at least there is some help to be afforded you...
But wait... this is medi-save and medi-sheild.... And after studying the model, I am wondering why are we gunning for change when other countries are using our model as a base platform? after all, we are as close to universal health care as anyone else in the world... FYI:L countries that are on a 100% universal health care model have income taxes starting at 15% (0 to 41544), 22% (41544 to 83088) and step up to 29%... GST levels of 12 to 15%...

means testing as it is now is based on your type of residence. 3-room, 4-room.. etc. and you or your father's income above $3,200.
This means testing is applied on the non-deductable portion of your medical bill. KIV this for below.

Right now, the government is pushing medical tourism. it means all the rich thais, malaysians, indonesians and so on come here for medical treatment.
This pushes the demand curve all the way to the right on a supply-demand curve.

Many doctors want to go to the private sector. few are left in the government hospitals. Yet every year the intake of med students remain very low and they turn away many students due to the small intake.
Now singaporeans are aging and need doctors. if you go in as a public assisted patient, you can wait long long.. maybe you die first before you get treatment. but if you opt to go private and pay the market rate, you get to see the doctor really quick. Now this market rate is the market rate of the expanded demand from all over SE Asia. you think you can don't pay so much? Free market okay?

For the rich, you think they won't pay? means testing or not, the rich want the best doctors.
for the middle income, these are the people who are squeezed by means testing. don't qualify for subsidy and cannot afford to pay private patient rates. even choosing to go with C-class wards with the lower income group, you are still stiffed with a bigger bill than your 3-room neighbour.

So at first they came up with medi-save, and it quickly became obvious it was not enough, that's why they came up with medi-shield. because whilst incidentals on the bill for the middle income is still manageable for your non-major illnesses, when a major illness hits, that's when some form of insurance is needed or you get wiped out.

So when people are going broke, they got no choice but to copy the western countries insurance model because singapore did not have a developed health insurance system then!

Now you see where our system draws parallels to western countries like US health system. Finally we have a health insurance for Major illnesses. Its funny that all that money couldn't have been used for health insurance in the first place!

But wait.. we can't allow so much money to be claimed from CPF. it depends on a larger and larger pool of young contributors, but our population is ageing and shrinking..

So means testing is used to limit the payout of the insurance and make people pay as much as possible to consume as little as possible of health care. Now this conveniently conserves healthcare resources for paying patients.

Also, your last point.. you cannot assume the high income tax goes to 100% universal healthcare.. there is also the pension component, unemployment benefits.. these we don't have.

Anyway I recommend you watch Sicko the film. There are detractors of the film but in general the nordic countries and some elements in canada have done a good job.

xWell said bro mizzy

Mizzy, if you are a politican I vote for you! I like your arguments. Very thoughtful insight.

At the same time, I do see where G_man is coming from when he refers to voting with a reason. Find out what is it that you want from each party.

I like this thread...

slinger wrote:

mowen wrote:

S70B wrote:

My navy colleague paid:

$760k for a 5-room HDB flat in Lavender next to the ICA.

That includes $69k COV.

That was back in Jan. His pay certainly has not risen 5 fold.

Thats really twice what I paid for mine back in '07.

However, he seems to think it was a great deal so I leave it to him what he thinks is 'affordable'.

serious ...

Phew ...

so u are sleeping on a asset worth a million dollars.....

can we do $5 cuthroat next time......

Can ... only for u ... and i mean only u ...

Cause u brought me to Malaysia to play golf

Guys,

my good friend called me and ask me why i engage in a technical argument on GR? haha.

I had initially abided by GR's R&R to be free of politics and still feel the same way, because politics will be a sensitive topic and this is a private forum. (funny that only singapore politics is so sensitive)

7. No discussion of RACE, RELIGION and POLITICS or any topics that may result in disputes and controversies.


Like I mentioned, there are lots of discussion on politics in other websites. Most of the points I made are actually a rehash from elsewhere..

Its my fault to get involved and feed this thread and I apologise.

Thanks guys for reading, I know its hard to read because my good friend told me he gave up halfway..

just an idea; since GRC is formed to make sure the minorities are represented, they should also make sure the less privileged are represented, i.e. at least 1 candidate lives in a HDB

Dear G-Man,

Is there anything wrong with asking for a check and balance system? and is there anything wrong when people asked for change without going into specifics? A lot of people are unhappy with the current system and policies, and if no change is made, then the question is that will the situation gets worst? People are losing confidence and patience is wearing thin. Heartlanders are concerned over inflation, housing and medical services, public transportation, obscene salaries for ministers, foreign talent, etc... and the list goes on and on. And talking about foreign talents, only 6 out of 10 jobs are taken by singaporeans and PR. How many of these 6 jobs indeed go to singaporean remain an unknown to me.

Since this is golf forum, I will use golf as an analogy. One may not be happy with the standards he is currently at. Now if this person doesn't do anything to change, either from a equipment or golf swing perspective, then will he ever improve? Of course one may argue that changing equipment or seeking help from a coach may not yield the desired results but at least the person makes an attempt to change. If Taylormade doesn't suit the golfer, then try out Titleist or Ping. If this coach is not good enough, then try other coaches till he finds the right one. Change takes time and eventually, the results will come if the person is persistent enough.

I really can't wait to see the polling results this time round.

ay.....nutty, of cos one needs to know what specific changes need to be made, how can just hamtum any change just for sake of change

I think this tread should be sent to the government as it contains many insights and problems affecting us nowadays. Perhaps they can improve on our situation. Better still, can someone propose some solutions to the problems?

Okay, didnt know politics were meant to be discussed here. but since we are at it. and it seems to be coming to an end...

But thanks Mizzy for the retort. It has and hopefully will remain an interesting exchange of views. But with regards to some of the points you have pointed out. I have had the benefit of staying in a number of countries for a protracted period of time. And honestly, no model is perfect. But again, change for change... Not a desirable solution either...

For Singapores context, we only use our exchange rate to control inflation. As a managed currency, this is our primary means to manage inflation. I cant remember when the last time Singapore hiked interest rates... and doubt they will..
Domestic inflation is a very thricky thing. And far too long a debate to get into here. But if the wealth and inflation are domestically generated. that means that veryone here can partake... Be it in a smaller or larger way...

In terms of cheaper housing. There is no quick answer to this. As most Singaporeans are heavily drawn on their CPFs for hosing loan repayments, any additional supply into the market will/could result in losses. I think this would be a primary concern for everyone. And with regards to sub-prime. my nose couldnt have been any closer to the grinding stone...

With regards to higher taxes and the contribution of such to pensions and the like. Unfortunately, this is not a possibility in Singapore. Again, due to your point about an aging population and reducing pool on contributors based on a per capita basis.

I trully see your points, there is no doubt that further work needs to be done on addressing various issues in Singapore. But the work wont end there... There will always be more to do... I just hope they (whomever that may be) do it well...

If one is to sit back and design a social framework. One that is ideal and fair for all. Utopia would be a socialist structure, possibly communist. Like all things in life, good ideas usually dont end with good results. To be fair to all, means to benefit none...

Let me put it in golfing contexts about " LKY's we cannot anyhow "change" government." I for one believe in that thinking...... Look at SICC, since the inception of transferable membership, the members wanted "Change" and they fought very hard to have the Club be run by elected members instead of appointees holding the key positions..... thats is fine... wait !... they not only wanted elected members BUT wanted "New members"(newly bought) to be run the club ! Without strong roots, culture, history and much understanding of the club. They even have convincing manifesto which never acted. the fateful day came and "new members" were voted into power and follow by ousting out all the "Old management"..... Guess what happens.... the club have gone to the Dogs since....why ? they keep reinventing the wheels(ie policies and structures) and from a leading club in Singapore and now SICC is lagging far behind TMCC and SENTOSA(they have not change since day one) !

Yes I am afraid of "Change" especially to change for the sake of changing , nothing is perfect and no one can please everyone or sector, somethings have to give in or will be less satisfied ..... so, if it is doing "OK" and not spoilt, Do Not change !

Back to Sicc again, their election is round the corner .. from the grapevine, now they want a "change back" to let the experience one run the club !

Painfully learned by members and wasted years of enduring poor management !

Dont regret for what you asked for ..... or is it the grass is greener on the other side ?

slinger wrote:

ay.....nutty, of cos one needs to know what specific changes need to be made, how can just hamtum any change just for sake of change

What I am trying to say is that people may not be comfortable or obligated enough to openly expressed what change is required but I do believe in general, they know what they need.

And when I talk about change, I don't mean a total change of the ruling party. Like it or not, we have progressed a long way and credits have to be given to those who have contributed to the building of a great nation. But certain policies have to be changed or tweaked but somehow I failed to see that coming.

nutty88 wrote:

Dear G-Man,

Is there anything wrong with asking for a check and balance system? and is there anything wrong when people asked for change without going into specifics? A lot of people are unhappy with the current system and policies, and if no change is made, then the question is that will the situation gets worst? People are losing confidence and patience is wearing thin. Heartlanders are concerned over inflation, housing and medical services, public transportation, obscene salaries for ministers, foreign talent, etc... and the list goes on and on. And talking about foreign talents, only 6 out of 10 jobs are taken by singaporeans and PR. How many of these 6 jobs indeed go to singaporean remain an unknown to me.

Since this is golf forum, I will use golf as an analogy. One may not be happy with the standards he is currently at. Now if this person doesn't do anything to change, either from a equipment or golf swing perspective, then will he ever improve? Of course one may argue that changing equipment or seeking help from a coach may not yield the desired results but at least the person makes an attempt to change. If Taylormade doesn't suit the golfer, then try out Titleist or Ping. If this coach is not good enough, then try other coaches till he finds the right one. Change takes time and eventually, the results will come if the person is persistent enough.

I really can't wait to see the polling results this time round.

Heh Bro. thanks for the reply.
But I was thinking about this...
If you are asked to buy a car now! would you at least like to know what your options are?

If you need info on your car choices and the options on the option, Isnt voting a tad bit more important??? Isnt knowing what is on offer more important then just having an opposing choice?
My main concern is not who gets the vote. Is why they get the vote.

Inflation is an issue to affects everyone. regardless of the income bracket we fall into.
Think of it this way, the poor are faced with higher daily living cost. the middle income are concerns about lowered savings rates and higher living cost. The rich are worried that their companies cant sustain so many employees due to higher input cost. Everyone has a problem to face. It isnt whether we have issues, its what we decide to do about them...

And regarding your golf analogy... Let me try one of my own: One I suspect, we have all done at some point or other...
While on course... the games a bit off... balls going a bit too left to right.. So what do we do?? We go for a stronger grip... Then wahlah!!! Straight... Times passes then what? We are not going dramatically right to left.... So we weaken the grip... Wahlah again, the ball goes straight... And time passes... And again we are left to right, and trying a stronger grip... etc etc....
What I am trying to get to is that, while change is what we are after. I am concern that they will be ill taken changes for changes sake.

In terms of the job market. Well, like golf I think competition is good. I have no doubt that many of the foreign talents will leave when something goes wrong, but while they are here! LETS PLAY...

nutty88 wrote:

slinger wrote:

ay.....nutty, of cos one needs to know what specific changes need to be made, how can just hamtum any change just for sake of change

What I am trying to say is that people may not be comfortable or obligated enough to openly expressed what change is required but I do believe in general, they know what they need.

And there in lies the problem...
Commited to change, but not commited to know what changes are needed or proposed?

G_Man wrote:

nutty88 wrote:

slinger wrote:

ay.....nutty, of cos one needs to know what specific changes need to be made, how can just hamtum any change just for sake of change

What I am trying to say is that people may not be comfortable or obligated enough to openly expressed what change is required but I do believe in general, they know what they need.

And there in lies the problem...
Commited to change, but not commited to know what changes are needed or proposed?

Isn't it why folks are going through the manifesto, news and social media, attending the rally talks, etc. so that they can align it back to what changes they need and how the change should be carried out? Is that not considered as commitment before we finally cast our vote?

Seriously, change comes in may ways and it doesn't mean replacing the ruling party but issues have to be addressed. People are more educated now and they can clearly identify what is good or bad for them, so I believe they won't vote for a party if the substance is not there. Bottomline is, don't vote blindly and make sure whoever you vote for can carry us through another few decades.

namyokyok wrote:

Time to milk the cow dear.