Impact...

Here is a view of Retief Goosen's impact from down the line.
Notice the difference between the address position and impact.
A picture tells a thousand words...

TGM,

Is the impact posture the same for both Irons, Woods and Drivers?

Yes, another fallacy people subscribe to is that there is
a driver swing and an iron swing. In reality, the dynamics
are the same except that they look diFferent due to
to the different lengths of the club and ball positions.

To my untrained golf hacker eyes,
The pics look very much like what the TGM guys like:
"Magic of right forearm"; having the shaft and right forearm inline for on plane loading, with terms like right forearm tracing and right forearm flying wedge?

It does however look slightly different from a "right sided swing" type. There are some old pics of Hogen there where you see at impact there is still an angle between the shaft and the right forearm for the "storeup" power?

Maybe RSC can knows more..

Thanks for sharing though...

The Golfing Machine wrote:

Yes, another fallacy people subscribe to is that there is
a driver swing and an iron swing. In reality, the dynamics
are the same except that they look diFferent due to
to the different lengths of the club and ball positions.

TGM, is it true that one of the big problems which new golfers suffer when using a driver is that they tend to swing more horizontally rather than vertically due to the length of the club?

Technospaz wrote:

TGM, is it true that one of the big problems which new golfers suffer when using a driver is that they tend to swing more horizontally rather than vertically due to the length of the club?

hmmm i'd always thought that you'd have to swing more horizontal for a driver in order to have a sweeping motion. whereas for irons you have to hit down on the ball.

ironfist wrote:

Technospaz wrote:

TGM, is it true that one of the big problems which new golfers suffer when using a driver is that they tend to swing more horizontally rather than vertically due to the length of the club?

hmmm i'd always thought that you'd have to swing more horizontal for a driver in order to have a sweeping motion. whereas for irons you have to hit down on the ball.

I suppose you're right but new golfers may be too horizontal and forget to release the club for a proper follow-through, because of its sweeping motion. I could be mistaken. Anyway, that's a problem I face.

Ssquirrel wrote:

To my untrained golf hacker eyes,
The pics look very much like what the TGM guys like:
"Magic of right forearm"; having the shaft and right forearm inline for on plane loading, with terms like right forearm tracing and right forearm flying wedge?

It does however look slightly different from a "right sided swing" type. There are some old pics of Hogen there where you see at impact there is still an angle between the shaft and the right forearm for the "storeup" power?

Maybe RSC can knows more..

Thanks for sharing though...

Here is some pics of Reteif vs RSS. We try to return the shaft back to were it starts, Reteif is alot higher at impact than address


The big reason for this is that Reteif has his club shaft across the line at the top and his clubface is closed


This means he will come down slightly steeper and the hands will have to get higher at impact, right arm will have to bend.

His leg will also bend more and head is stuck down. Notice how much further away his hands are from his body than the RSS


After impact Reteif extends away from himself and the arms will flip. RSS can continue around as did Mr Hogan.


Yes I know Reteif has won 2 US opens, I am not saying what he does is wrong, it is just an analysis between Reteif and RSS.
The readers can judge for themselves which looks more reliable and makes more sense. Hope this helps

Ssquirrel wrote:

To my untrained golf hacker eyes,
The pics look very much like what the TGM guys like:
"Magic of right forearm"; having the shaft and right forearm inline for on plane loading, with terms like right forearm tracing and right forearm flying wedge?

It does however look slightly different from a "right sided swing" type. There are some old pics of Hogen there where you see at impact there is still an angle between the shaft and the right forearm for the "storeup" power?

Maybe RSC can knows more..

Thanks for sharing though...

You are correct in your observations.
With the right forearm behind the shaft, you tend to have more support behind the shaft.

Once again, lovely comp pics Paul.

I think a lot of us can learn from the RSS footwork displayed by Gardiner (?)

The difference in right arm position at impact is due to the different procedures employed. Generally, Retief's position tends to more power and speed while RSS tends to more accuracy.
I will take the latter anytime.

A 3 iron from short grass beats a 6 from the rough anytime.

ironfist wrote:

Technospaz wrote:

TGM, is it true that one of the big problems which new golfers suffer when using a driver is that they tend to swing more horizontally rather than vertically due to the length of the club?

hmmm i'd always thought that you'd have to swing more horizontal for a driver in order to have a sweeping motion. whereas for irons you have to hit down on the ball.

You should not try to swing more horizontally.
The fact that the driver's added length makes you stand further from the ball which creates a flatter plane.

I m working hard on my driver swing now. When i take the club back, i used to over-swing the club to over parallel. Now i m trying to keep the club less than parallel at the top, like RSS in the pics. I believe if i set my club in the right position at the top, it will take me less effort to slot the club correctly on the downswing. Any drills to recommend just for this purpose?

You may not think I am serious...
When you take your backswing...feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground all the way to the top. Your arms will be packed into your body with the club being impossible to go parallel.

Your downswing should start from inside and if you do not hold off the clubface, should produce a lovely mid trajectory draw.

who8168 wrote:

I m working hard on my driver swing now. When i take the club back, i used to over-swing the club to over parallel. Now i m trying to keep the club less than parallel at the top, like RSS in the pics. I believe if i set my club in the right position at the top, it will take me less effort to slot the club correctly on the downswing. Any drills to recommend just for this purpose?

If your body angles are similar to the guy on the right, and you do not collapse your arms, it will be near impossible to overswing. Without seeing your swing though it is hard to comment accurately

Right_sided_coach wrote:

who8168 wrote:

I m working hard on my driver swing now. When i take the club back, i used to over-swing the club to over parallel. Now i m trying to keep the club less than parallel at the top, like RSS in the pics. I believe if i set my club in the right position at the top, it will take me less effort to slot the club correctly on the downswing. Any drills to recommend just for this purpose?

If your body angles are similar to the guy on the right, and you do not collapse your arms, it will be near impossible to overswing. Without seeing your swing though it is hard to comment accurately

Haha.... these 2 pics are just wat i need. I used to swing like the guy on the left, when my weight will shift to the outside of my right feet during the backswing, my right hip slides lateral outside of my right feet, a little reverse pivot too. Now i try to do a 1-piece take away with a slower tempo, keeping my weight inside of my right feet, rotate my right hip slightly instead of sliding right. I must remember the 2 arrows u drew on the right pic with QQ - left shoulder & hips 'moving' in opposite directions. Good mental picture!

The Golfing Machine wrote:

You may not think I am serious...
When you take your backswing...feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground all the way to the top. Your arms will be packed into your body with the club being impossible to go parallel.

Your downswing should start from inside and if you do not hold off the clubface, should produce a lovely mid trajectory draw.

This is from my study of biomechanics...the use of opposing forces to create a desired effect.

Technospaz wrote:

ironfist wrote:

hmmm i'd always thought that you'd have to swing more horizontal for a driver in order to have a sweeping motion. whereas for irons you have to hit down on the ball.

I suppose you're right but new golfers may be too horizontal and forget to release the club for a proper follow-through, because of its sweeping motion. I could be mistaken. Anyway, that's a problem I face.

wow you hit the nail on the head. that's what i'm suffering from too. everything's a block or a slice and only when i drill into my head to release the club then i'll get a somewhat straighter shot.

The Golfing Machine wrote:

You may not think I am serious...
When you take your backswing...feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground all the way to the top. Your arms will be packed into your body with the club being impossible to go parallel.

Your downswing should start from inside and if you do not hold off the clubface, should produce a lovely mid trajectory draw.

and this sounds really good. will try this swing thought out tmr night. thanks!

ironfist wrote:

Technospaz wrote:

ironfist wrote:

hmmm i'd always thought that you'd have to swing more horizontal for a driver in order to have a sweeping motion. whereas for irons you have to hit down on the ball.

I suppose you're right but new golfers may be too horizontal and forget to release the club for a proper follow-through, because of its sweeping motion. I could be mistaken. Anyway, that's a problem I face.

wow you hit the nail on the head. that's what i'm suffering from too. everything's a block or a slice and only when i drill into my head to release the club then i'll get a somewhat straighter shot.

The Golfing Machine wrote:

You may not think I am serious...
When you take your backswing...feel like the shaft is parallel to the ground all the way to the top. Your arms will be packed into your body with the club being impossible to go parallel.

Your downswing should start from inside and if you do not hold off the clubface, should produce a lovely mid trajectory draw.

and this sounds really good. will try this swing thought out tmr night. thanks!

Great...
You will be pleasantly surprised to find out that the shaft will not in actual fact be parallel to the ground at all.
A case of what you feel you are doing and what actually happens is not the same!

yeah somehow the word that helps keep my swing consistent (somewhat) is "loopy"
my arms aren't exactly looping all over the place like how jim furyk does it but it helps me come from a more inside line and hit draws.

The less loop you have the more consistent you will be.
Think about it...do you think your arms can loop the same amount, the same speed in sync with the other parts of your body day in and out?

hmmm true. see lah now you're giving me more things to think about. haha so what thought would you recommend for the transition from backswing to downswing? i've tried the 'squat and turn' and telling myself to let my arms fall to 'hip height' and that 'loopy' thing i shot myself in the foot with. hahaha

Squat and Turn is more an effect rather than a cause.

I would recommend your backswing be closer to your impact plane.
That would cause your hands to be really low and be nearer hip height.

When that is settled, your main transition thought ought to be dragging the clubhead from the top of the backswing INTO your left wallet pocket.

I realise that some of the stuff I have been saying sounds weird and very wrong.

But if we keep in mind that the hands are moving in tandem with the pivot and other parts - what feels very wrong can turn out to BE very right.

thanks for the advice tgm! and just to clarify, left wallet pocket = left front pocket? i keep my wallet in the back pocket lah.

btw i tried out your tip on imagining keeping the golf shaft parallel to the ground and it helped tons! i ended up hitting a lot straighter drives! but then i lost concentration and started hitting all over the shop. haha distance wise it's embarrassing however.. hahaha

ironfist wrote:

thanks for the advice tgm! and just to clarify, left wallet pocket = left front pocket? i keep my wallet in the back pocket lah.

btw i tried out your tip on imagining keeping the golf shaft parallel to the ground and it helped tons! i ended up hitting a lot straighter drives! but then i lost concentration and started hitting all over the shop. haha distance wise it's embarrassing however.. hahaha

Left wallet pocket = left buttcheek...

Good that the "tip"helped.

To get the distance, continue with the backswing and past impact, you need to feel like you are aggressively closing the clubface.