Club Head Speed

redbull wrote:

RSC 1 : Alan 1

and i am utterly confused

go and try out both, experiment a bit...
see which one works for you lor..

Yes you can not stop at impact....agree, but trying to swing "well past your back" is encouraging firstly a long back swing and a weak impact position. Yes it may feel powerful but it isn't. Control the club face and shaft and you can control the ball which is the objective of golf. Swinging wildly for distance is not control and will not give you a better score. You will loose your lag/store up in the process and have no idea where the ball is going. Do you ever see a pro swing like this. They swing at about 80% power and they focus more on controlling the flight and trajectory. Most overswing and have a very uncontrolled follow through, so keeping is short and compact will help you control your ball and reduce your "mystery shots".

don't be overly confused redbull, both pros have their point. Let us see the similarities. Both agree that you cannot try to aim for the ball. You must swing beyond the ball.

RSC - "Yes you can not stop at impact"

Alan - "there is definitely some extend of follow-through after the impact"

I would add that my pro always tell me, if you aim to swing at the ball, you will actually decelerate at impact. You must aim behind the ball so that you are accelerating during impact.

I play tennis competitively last time. I also know that you must swing beyond the ball. Sprinting competition is the same too. You cannot aim to finish at the finishing line. You must aim for 10m behind the line so that you are at your peak through the line.

The pros please correct me if I misunderstood:

Key points:

1. swing beyond the ball and make sure you imaging your club head to be fastest after the ball and not at the ball.

2. RSC ask to keep swing compact and not overswing and use the lag to generate speed and control the ball with no excessive motion.

3. Alan advise that concentrate on finishing so that you will swing past the ball and not slow down during impact

Did I get it correct?

You all need to realise as golfers that everything in the golf swing matches up. If you have a long loose follow through you will have a poor impact position. See below




This goes with that

Having a short controlled follow through will produce a solid impact position




So the "moment of truth" is impact. The follow through being long "past the back" does not match up to solid impact. Most pros do not swing this way. They swing at about 80% and focus on controlling the ball and trajectory. This is the objective of the game....control....not distance. Swinging like this will give you many "mystery shots". Golf to me is nothing like a 100 metre sprint. It is a hitting sport!

sunny wrote:

don't be overly confused redbull, both pros have their point. Let us see the similarities. Both agree that you cannot try to aim for the ball. You must swing beyond the ball.

RSC - "Yes you can not stop at impact"

Alan - "there is definitely some extend of follow-through after the impact"

I would add that my pro always tell me, if you aim to swing at the ball, you will actually decelerate at impact. You must aim behind the ball so that you are accelerating during impact.

I play tennis competitively last time. I also know that you must swing beyond the ball. Sprinting competition is the same too. You cannot aim to finish at the finishing line. You must aim for 10m behind the line so that you are at your peak through the line.

The pros please correct me if I misunderstood:

Key points:

1. swing beyond the ball and make sure you imaging your club head to be fastest after the ball and not at the ball.

2. RSC ask to keep swing compact and not overswing and use the lag to generate speed and control the ball with no excessive motion.

3. Alan advise that concentrate on finishing so that you will swing past the ball and not slow down during impact

Did I get it correct?

Thanks Sunny
You got most of it correct. I would just add that in the modern game of tennis, the game is so fast that the players have a limited follow through and a very fast recoil of the racquet, much like I prescribe with the golf swing. If the racquet hits you in the back on the follow through nowadays, the opponent will hit it back past you before you can even get into your next back swing. This is why tennis is now such a fast and powerful game. Most use 2 hands and whip it around their bodies. 20 years ago it was not like this. Tennis has evolved, why not golf?? They do not extend and have long follow throughs in tennis do they!

sunny wrote:

1. swing beyond the ball and make sure you imaging your club head to be fastest after the ball and not at the ball.

Is that your secret to 250m drives? from a scale of 1 to 10, what is the importance of this point to create those long drives?

sunny wrote:

don't be overly confused redbull, both pros have their point. Let us see the similarities. Both agree that you cannot try to aim for the ball. You must swing beyond the ball.

I am going fishing already

"3. Alan advise that concentrate on finishing so that you will swing past the ball and not slow down during impact"

Sunny has explained my point quite well.

I am saying that player shall follow-through and then go to "finish" position such that you could accelerate and keep the momemtum through the impact.

There are similiarities between tennis and golf, but so as differences, In tennis, you need to be ready to cover your position after your stroke, thus limit the player's follow through, there is no issue in this as far as golf is concern. you have all the time in the world to complete the motion needed.

I agree with Allan.

My swing key is always to accelarate through impact zone, all the way to full follow through. Acceleration through impact ensures maximum energy transfer from club head to the ball. Full follow through with passive wrists gives me the right moment of squared contact between club face and ball to minimise dispersion of my launch direction.

freedrop wrote:

I agree with Allan.

My swing key is always to accelarate through impact zone, all the way to full follow through. Acceleration through impact ensures maximum energy transfer from club head to the ball. Full follow through with passive wrists gives me the right moment of squared contact between club face and ball to minimise dispersion of my launch direction.

Sorry, I meant Alan.

i think besides speed.... we have to talk abt impact at the sweet spot, one of the more underrated point.....

i read even though there's a 10% lost of distance for new driver..

imagine if you potential drive is 245 yd....a 10% lost is 24.5yds lost of distance!!!! tht's a lot...

jaketang wrote:

i think besides speed.... we have to talk abt impact at the sweet spot, one of the more underrated point.....

i read even though there's a 10% lost of distance for new driver..

imagine if you potential drive is 245 yd....a 10% lost is 24.5yds lost of distance!!!! tht's a lot...

Jake... in future, pls dun anyhow say I your mentor hor...
if you cannot remember the the most important golf lesson/tip/swing thought I imparted to you at the GR Charity Golf game...which is...


"HIT HARD!!! LOOK UP!!!"

freedrop wrote:

I agree with Allan.

My swing key is always to accelarate through impact zone, all the way to full follow through. Acceleration through impact ensures maximum energy transfer from club head to the ball. Full follow through with passive wrists gives me the right moment of squared contact between club face and ball to minimise dispersion of my launch direction.

I use to believe like that as well. I just had lesson with RSC and doing this drill, I now can hit ball just as far with shorter swing less effort. The impact improve a lot and ball now not fly so high. It just feel very simple and shot more consistent

He also explain this is just the drill to feel lag and the impact. When I learn this and can do consistent then can increase to a longer swing. I try with driver and ball so straight

Ssquirrel wrote:

jaketang wrote:

i think besides speed.... we have to talk abt impact at the sweet spot, one of the more underrated point.....

i read even though there's a 10% lost of distance for new driver..

imagine if you potential drive is 245 yd....a 10% lost is 24.5yds lost of distance!!!! tht's a lot...

Jake... in future, pls dun anyhow say I your mentor hor...
if you cannot remember the the most important golf lesson/tip/swing thought I imparted to you at the GR Charity Golf game...which is...


"HIT HARD!!! LOOK UP!!!"

of course i forever remember mentor....

u say most important... DUN hit hard n look up... heehee...indeed a very good advice... from some single hcp.... awesome...

SC wrote:

sunny wrote:

1. swing beyond the ball and make sure you imaging your club head to be fastest after the ball and not at the ball.

Is that your secret to 250m drives? from a scale of 1 to 10, what is the importance of this point to create those long drives?

super important...i always aim for a point a few inches behind the ball.

so envy..... drive of 250m....

if only i can do it.... sigh....

golf, no train no gain....

i will stick to my "feel" golf.... pea shooter it's alright.... at least i dun have to go range now... heehee... golf for lazy ppl....

sunny wrote:

SC wrote:

sunny wrote:

1. swing beyond the ball and make sure you imaging your club head to be fastest after the ball and not at the ball.

Is that your secret to 250m drives? from a scale of 1 to 10, what is the importance of this point to create those long drives?

super important...i always aim for a point a few inches behind the ball.

Hi Sunny,

I also do the same thing. I hit down on the ball (taught by coach because it helps with impact / picking up the ball) and try to follow through with it a few inches before the club head starts going up. I know it sounds weird becuase you produce a "flat plane" just before and after impact. but it works. i guess this prevents "scooping" the ball.

Just another thing to stir the pot. Does a heavier shaft help to improve club head speed?

i think heavier club help in the distance... if u can handle the weight.

weesern wrote:

i think heavier club help in the distance... if u can handle the weight.

Hi Weesern,

Oh ok....I have this impression that because the shaft is heavier, it helps in the down swing due to gravity being able to help it more.

Also, does anyone different shaft setups of different clubs? eg: Regular for irons and Stiff for driver? Sorry for the really nood question.

weesern wrote:

i think heavier club help in the distance... if u can handle the weight.

I too like a club which has a heavier head. It helps me to have a better feel of the club. Likewise, the shaft needs to be of some weight too. If it's too light, it's too whippy.

just think of a bowling ball...the lighter the ball, the faster you have to roll to generate speed...

the theory is the same for golf club total weight, i was at a talk show in thailand and 9 out of 10 callers wanted to know how to increase distance and accuracy.

the answer is three factors.

Swing Speed...

total weight is head + shaft + grip, but the significant weight factor is the head and shaft weight. now we all know that velocity is mass X length so unless you are 6 foot 5 inch or weigh heavier than the average person, you have to swing a lot harder or faster to generate the swing speed to achieve the same distance.

just look at Ernie Els and Sergio Garcia and their swing style and speed, they will probably drive about the same distance but with different degrees of effort.

Hitting the Sweet Spot....

theoretically every quarter inch off the sweet spot means a 7% loss of distance and accuracy. An Inch off translate to 28% loss! was playing with a young guy today and he hits his shots pretty long. however i outdrove him on some holes with my 90 mph swing speed versus his 105. why? he was heeling his shot and its obvious as it produced a fade.

The most important of all is Technique...

to a large extent how far you can hit is determined by your genes and your structure.

a tall guy with short arms will drive no longer than another person who is shorter but have longer arms...why? its the swing arc. of course there is also power...power from the upper body and power from the mass of the person's structure.

however proper training and coaching, gym work and proper equipment will help a golfer achieve better distance and accuracy. camilo is a fine example...when he first joined the PGA tour he was probably 20 to 30 yards shorter than now. where did he find the extra distance....technique, gym work and probably because he has developed more power in his upper body.

equipment in Camilo's case may be only a small contribution to driving longer, but may play a bigger part in driving more accurately.

DGman