Why you should play blade, by Miura San?

MUSSELback??
I learn something new here each day!

This were the original blades.

golf_snowman wrote:

yes..totally agree with you, SBH

ball striking is one very important factor...and that is why i am thinking of using blade as my training club..

Not advisable.. simply because the offset is different. Once you get use to the blade 0 offset.. going back to the normal forgiving clubs.. you will tend to hook a lot!!

bomby wrote:

golf_snowman wrote:

yes..totally agree with you, SBH

ball striking is one very important factor...and that is why i am thinking of using blade as my training club..

Not advisable.. simply because the offset is different. Once you get use to the blade 0 offset.. going back to the normal forgiving clubs.. you will tend to hook a lot!!

I would like to know how you came about with that assumption.

Can you please explain the correlation between offset and hooking.

You are allowed to use diagrams if you have a problem using simple terms.

eiji wrote:

This were the original blades.

Correct. Notice the absence of a distinct mass? That's why these are true blades. Modern 'blades' all have a distinct mass, aka the 'muscle' which is shaped like a mussel.

S70B wrote:

bomby wrote:

golf_snowman wrote:

yes..totally agree with you, SBH

ball striking is one very important factor...and that is why i am thinking of using blade as my training club..

Not advisable.. simply because the offset is different. Once you get use to the blade 0 offset.. going back to the normal forgiving clubs.. you will tend to hook a lot!!

I would like to know how you came about with that assumption.

Can you please explain the correlation between offset and hooking.

You are allowed to use diagrams if you have a problem using simple terms.

*grabs popcorn and coke*

*sits on bench*

*waits*

S70B wrote:

I would like to know how you came about with that assumption.

Can you please explain the correlation between offset and hooking.

You are allowed to use diagrams if you have a problem using simple terms.

The reason is that offset does help you with squaring the club head at impact... or to more precise.. it delays the squaring so that effective helping ppl that slice the ball.

This is not an assumption, but happened to me when I switch from MP33 blade to titleist 775 CB, the first few rounds I need to fight hooking and I have to constantly have to delay the clubface during the downswing because the face close faster than I expect it to..

Hope this explains. If you need to know what is offset.. please see this..

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/offset.htm

I wouldnt be able to comment - never played clubs with much offset anyway

That said, does that mean that if I switch to Callaway Big Berthas now, I will start to slice?

Its ok mate, I know the google function pretty well.

I think making generalisations about how offset will give you hooking issues are totally way off.

It should 'help' golfers who slice but if we are talking about the new ball flight laws, its the club path that has a more definite impact on the curvature of the flight rather that the face or the offset. That is why it has now been proven that we can draw the ball with an open clubface and vice versa.

I have played with various types of irons and of different degrees of offsets and I have not seen any issues with hooking as you have mentioned. What causes more curve is more likely the shaft, lie angle of the club or even grip size rather than the offset.

If you need to have a test be objective, both sets of irons should have matching shafts, lie angles, grip sizes and lengths. Just because they are totally different and you hook more with 1 set doesn't prove it definitely.

Perhaps, you should have had a pro look at your swing or a clubfitter to look at your club specs to see if anything was wrong or different.

If offset is prone to hooking, its time to tell Rory Sabbatini and KJ Choi who both use SGI irons with huge amounts of offset.

77CB
3 Iron 4 Iron 5 Iron 6 Iron 7 Iron 8 Iron 9 Iron P W
OFFSET .295" .265" .230" .195" .160" .130" .110" .100" .095"

MP33
Offset
3 .110
4 .110
5 .110
6 .110
7 .110
8 .110
9 .102
PW .102

Thats the difference in offset between the two irons, i think there is more than just offset that is causing you to hook, it could be LIE, Swingweight, Shaft Flex, Torque, Kick?

I am no expert, but i doubt offset has such a huge factor on squaring on clubface as much as the other factors, especially lie angle, if u are hitting it sweet, lie angle has the most effect on left to right dispersion in the shorter irons

it might be all about perception.. a larger off set may cause you to close the club face more to look square to you at address..

my own experience.. off set doesn't make me hook. but i prefer no or little offset.

also, some marketing or golfer's advice, off set is more forgiving.. personally I have no idea about that..

peace..

I sorry, I think there is some miscomm here. No doubt that the swing path, outside in or inside out does define a slice or hook, but what we are discussing here we need to define constants.

You agree that if the swing path is constant... i.e a good inside in path with a square face at impact will produce a straight flight right and similarly a open or close with a correct swing path will create a slice/fade or hook/draw.

Let say the swing was made with a zero offset club. this means that the shaft arrives together with the squaring of the club face right?

Picture the same swing, same timing... with an offset club, the shaft arrives at the ball but the clubface is square but has not arrive yet due to the offset. It delays it. the next motion in the swing is an inside path in which we start to turn the clubface right? That split second delay will create a closed face which will result in a hook or maybe a draw.

What i am trying to say is, if you practice day in day out with a zero offset club, when you change it to a + offset ones, you need to adjust. There are good player out there like yourself that can do that, but for a leisure golfer like myself, i cannot. Note I am not saying that an offset clubs will hook more than one without and it is not your cure of a bad swing. Hope this clears things up.

Cheers

eiji wrote:

77CB
3 Iron 4 Iron 5 Iron 6 Iron 7 Iron 8 Iron 9 Iron P W
OFFSET .295" .265" .230" .195" .160" .130" .110" .100" .095"

MP33
Offset
3 .110
4 .110
5 .110
6 .110
7 .110
8 .110
9 .102
PW .102

Thats the difference in offset between the two irons, i think there is more than just offset that is causing you to hook, it could be LIE, Swingweight, Shaft Flex, Torque, Kick?

I am no expert, but i doubt offset has such a huge factor on squaring on clubface as much as the other factors, especially lie angle, if u are hitting it sweet, lie angle has the most effect on left to right dispersion in the shorter irons

its was the swing. as due to using blade, i tend to close the clubhead early right after impact to give me a nice draw shot.. when I switch.. the closing effect is over correct. Thats why i need to delay it.

Sry but I think we are moving away form the topic. Love to discuss this in another thread. And just to set the settings right, I am no pro. Just sharing my experience.

@bomby, you raised a good point to think about..

My own feel is that I swing the club head with a good feel for where the club head and club face is... so if it is offset, I still "feel" where the club head is, rather than thinking of the head in relation to the shaft.. make sense?

but i still do need to get used to offset when changing from less offset.

if my long iron have big offset but my replacement iron hybrid dont have, how?. I find it easier to draw or hook with a minimum offset iron (maybe its mb vs Sgi). However i cannot slice to save my life.(shank yes slice no)

problem with you guys is that you screw about with your equipment while allowing too many variables to come into play.

e.g. if i switched from my current RAC MBs to Cobra S2s 'just to try', i cannot expect to know if the head is more forgiving as there are many other variable that come into play, such as shaft flex and kickpoint, swingweight, overall club weight, offset, etc

this is why all my irons are largely the same in many ways

little offset
similar swingweights
same grip size

As such, all my irons play the same, have pretty much the same level of forgiveness, which allows me to indulge in my itchiness to play with new stuff without really having to change my swing to suit the equipment

To make a point, i now have 7 R510 TP drivers, just because it works right for me. I'd screw around with shafts and shaft lengths to experiment with what works and what doesn't and learn in the process, but I wouldn't get a driver with offset because I would end up tweaking my swing, and that's NEVER a good thing.

seebayho wrote:

Miura Golf Debuts

When asked why he would be introducing a smaller iron when the industry standard now seems to be mid-size and oversize irons, Mr. Miura responded "industry fads mean nothing to me. These fads are developed by the marketing departments of the equipment manufacturers simply to boost sales and have little to do with performance. What I care about is creating the most perfect performing golf clubs for golfers, and different golfers have different preferences. I believe there is a class of golfer who will very much appreciate the qualities of the Small Blade, and I have made this club for these golfers. This club is for two kinds of golfers - the first being the golfer who generally strikes the ball on the sweet spot and who wants to simply enjoy the unique pleasure of a perfect shot hit with a Miura club - the second being the golfer who really wants to improve and is looking for the most intelligent feedback on every shot he or she hits. Frankly, if people can cleanse their minds of the marketing hype that has been fed to them over the years, they might find that that forged blades are not necessarily only for the single digit handicappers. You are not penalized for mishit shots to the degree people believe and there are many advantages to these clubs, for example the Small Blade cuts through rough more efficiently than any other club."

The way he mentioned that mid-size and over-size irons are marketing gimmicks, sounds as if everybody should play the same size of irons regardless of skills. But then he went on to mentioned that his irons are created for 2 kinds of golfers only: the pure strikers and the pure-striker wannabes...

So, I guess until you become a great striker of the ball, you should just bare the torture and suffer by learning to hit these blades? Can imagine how many of us would quit learning the game out of frustration...

ghoonk wrote:

To make a point, i now have 7 R510 TP drivers, just because it works right for me. I'd screw around with shafts and shaft lengths to experiment with what works and what doesn't and learn in the process, but I wouldn't get a driver with offset because I would end up tweaking my swing, and that's NEVER a good thing.

SEVEN??? Wow, that beats my record of having 3 282s with different lofts at the same time!!!

I play the game for the pleasure of ball striking first, score second. I would rather have a damn good ballstriking day and shoot 90 than to have a crap ballstriking day and shoot 85.

Good ballstriking carries on from round to round, but one could get lucky and shoot low despite being a rubbish ballstriker

The feel of a perfect ballstrike is something that cannot be described in a paragraph, and is the one thing that keeps me coming back to this insane game.

This is why I started with blades and forced myself to improve my swing. I'm not the best ballstriker around, but I'm pretty happy with the quality of my strikes, and that's what matters to me

Sounds like someone is practicing a flip to square a clubface.

Which goes back to a swing issue of having a problem achieving solid impact position.

Here is a video of slow motion ball impact. Maybe you would like to observe the full inch after impact what really happens to the clubhead.



And this will have shed some light on variations of clubface. I like the fact that the iron has offset.


Here is a good tutorial to help you hit straight shots with your 775CB



The last thing you wanna think about when hitting a shot is your offset mate.

Yarra wrote:

ghoonk wrote:

To make a point, i now have 7 R510 TP drivers, just because it works right for me. I'd screw around with shafts and shaft lengths to experiment with what works and what doesn't and learn in the process, but I wouldn't get a driver with offset because I would end up tweaking my swing, and that's NEVER a good thing.

SEVEN??? Wow, that beats my record of having 3 282s with different lofts at the same time!!!

Mine is a mix of 8.5 and 9.5 drivers so far. Personally prefer the 8.5s, but am trying to win the bid on a 7.5 now

Love the feel of the R510 TPs and I'd be all over the SQ282s if not for the fact that they are 460cc drivers

bomby wrote:

golf_snowman wrote:

yes..totally agree with you, SBH

ball striking is one very important factor...and that is why i am thinking of using blade as my training club..

Not advisable.. simply because the offset is different. Once you get use to the blade 0 offset.. going back to the normal forgiving clubs.. you will tend to hook a lot!!

There are musclebacks (such as Mizunos) with a noticeable degree of offsets, too.

Duval_S wrote:

thanks ghoon....so I should not be afraid of being near to 58 and 68 ( I think.....)

I think you'd be better off playing the 68s. They feel much better than the 58s and they are equally forgiving! I have a sets of 58-68 combos and that's how I feel about it. Regretting getting the combo instead of a set of 68s, though.

ghoonk wrote:

Yarra wrote:

ghoonk wrote:

To make a point, i now have 7 R510 TP drivers, just because it works right for me. I'd screw around with shafts and shaft lengths to experiment with what works and what doesn't and learn in the process, but I wouldn't get a driver with offset because I would end up tweaking my swing, and that's NEVER a good thing.

SEVEN??? Wow, that beats my record of having 3 282s with different lofts at the same time!!!

Mine is a mix of 8.5 and 9.5 drivers so far. Personally prefer the 8.5s, but am trying to win the bid on a 7.5 now

Love the feel of the R510 TPs and I'd be all over the SQ282s if not for the fact that they are 460cc drivers

Have you tried the FT-9TAs or FT-Tours? I think you'll love it!

Yarra wrote:

bomby wrote:

golf_snowman wrote:

yes..totally agree with you, SBH

ball striking is one very important factor...and that is why i am thinking of using blade as my training club..

Not advisable.. simply because the offset is different. Once you get use to the blade 0 offset.. going back to the normal forgiving clubs.. you will tend to hook a lot!!

There are musclebacks (such as Mizunos) with a noticeable degree of offsets, too.

Duval_S wrote:

thanks ghoon....so I should not be afraid of being near to 58 and 68 ( I think.....)

I think you'd be better off playing the 68s. They feel much better than the 58s and they are equally forgiving! I have a sets of 58-68 combos and that's how I feel about it. Regretting getting the combo instead of a set of 68s, though.

That said, you can get good musclebacks used for less than what a set of MP68s will cost you. The TM TP MBs are pretty decent, but I would stay away from the King Cobra Pro MBs in S300 as they are not that friendly. I had mine switched to PX5.0 and now they are super easy to play. You can also consider Mizuno MP33s, which have less offset than the MP37s, if you're into Mizuno.

Alternatively, a set of the original Nike Forged Blade from 2001 should not set you back too much (I have seen sets going for SGD300) and with the right shafts, they are pretty good.

Here's a set of CG1 Black Pearls for SGD250 : http://www.golfrepublic.org/marketplace-f8/wts-golf-items-clearance-t6619.htm#132415

Yarra wrote:

ghoonk wrote:

Yarra wrote:

ghoonk wrote:

To make a point, i now have 7 R510 TP drivers, just because it works right for me. I'd screw around with shafts and shaft lengths to experiment with what works and what doesn't and learn in the process, but I wouldn't get a driver with offset because I would end up tweaking my swing, and that's NEVER a good thing.

SEVEN??? Wow, that beats my record of having 3 282s with different lofts at the same time!!!

Mine is a mix of 8.5 and 9.5 drivers so far. Personally prefer the 8.5s, but am trying to win the bid on a 7.5 now

Love the feel of the R510 TPs and I'd be all over the SQ282s if not for the fact that they are 460cc drivers

Have you tried the FT-9TAs or FT-Tours? I think you'll love it!

Personally hate the short ferrule on the Callaways, and find the head shape to be too round. I prefer the traditional pear-shaped heads