short game within 50M

Hi,

I always have problem on short game. Many strokes lost to "pin pong" near the green

I have some questions on short game, hope the PROs or forumers can help.

1. What is the different between Pitch and Chip? Ball flight, distance?

2. How to approach within 20M from the flag?
Use: P, 52 degree,56 degree or 58 degree or 7, 9 irons?

my favorite quote from Tom Watson, "a chip is a short pitch, a pitch is a long chip"

there are so many ways to go 20m. Helpful forumers will give their 2 cents, so you will accumulate maybe 20 cents. I say: visit the pro an one or two hours lesson. You will not ping pong anymore and your scores will drop by 5-10 strokes and you will accumulate $$$ from your buddies. Cool?

For me, for distance of 20m, depends on the amount of green before pin, my favorite is to chip and run (or bump and run)...depending on the roll distance required, i usually take a low loft club and hit it with a putting stroke.

I used to dread those 60m-10m approaches but thanks to Mr. BFG@OCC (Uncle Phua), he really gave solid tips on how to attack the pin from those distances...

Confidence is THE key word...

I think different pple have different views so since you ask for some advice, here's what I would do for your questions 1 and 2 :

1. The difference between pitch and chip to me is the distance only. Pitch = 75m - 90m, while chip = 20m - 70m. Ball flight for pitch is definitely higher than chip, more like an iron shot, and my ball tends to roll a bit after landing. Ball flight for chipping, however, varies according to the distance, it can be high for 50-70m and low running for shorter distances and my ball tends to hop once or twice and stops.

2. Approach within 20m to flag - it depends on where your ball is, in my perspective. If there's no greenside bunker, gradual gradient, you can even use your 3 wood to roll the ball near to the flag (just use a putting stroke for the 3 wood). Can also use 9 iron or PW to chip and run (low running). But if there's an immediate greenside bunker between the ball and the flag, i would use 56 deg, just to be sure my ball gets up and clear the bunker.

The above are what I would do in my situation, but of cos the pro may give u another perspective according to your strengths and swing. I think ultimately, it's your confidence in the shot that clicks it.

it sounds like u hv problem making good contact with the ball... sometimes it could be just a mental issue....

When u say u are playing ping pong, u are blading it... Due to the loft of short irons, if u catch it thin of blade it, the ball will travel more than what you want. So sometimes in the mind there is a concern that if I blade it, the ball will fly over the green... these negative thoughts will affect the actual outcome...

Just commit to the shot and swing...

Hi nanohenry,

the best thing is to engage a good pro to work it out with you, reason being every individual are different, what works for one might not work for you...

I believe a few sessions, maybe 3 or 4 session, would definitely gonna help you solve most of the short game problems you are facing...it's the $$ worth spend.

Technical side :

chip should be only the rotation of you shoulder ... there shouldnt have any leverage

pitch should be a have only one leverage. i consider my pitch shot as 50% of a full swing

A chip is like a putting stroke with an iron. It will spend more time on the ground that in the air.
1.Have your feet relatively close together
2.Weight slightly forward
3.ball position back toward the right foot if right handed (opposite for lefty)
4.choke up on club for improved feel and consistency (personal opinion)
5.slight forward press or lean of the shaft (hands must lead or stay ahead of the golf club face)
6.then stroke like a putt. Can even use putting grip to help eliminate excessive wrist action
7.Use different clubs for different distances or learn to hit one various distances.

Pitch: A pitch is a shot that is different than a chip. It will spend equal or more time in the air (most of the time) and requires different mechanics than a chip.

1. Feet still relatively close together.
2.Weight slightly forward
3. Ball back of center
4. Hands in front of ball (shaft lean or slight forward press)
5. Slight choke up on club for aided feel and control
6. slight wrist cock on the back swing
7. swing the club at least as fast on the backswing to avoid deceleration of the club on the throughswing.

Some key ideas on pitching should include practice, lessons to learn the proper technique, development of a system to become more consistent. I remember something I saw Ledbetter and even Pelz talking about with respect to a clock. Something about picturing a clock and swing the club on the backswing to a particular time on the clock and then finishing the swing on the exact opposite time (ex. 9 oclock to 3 oclock are opposite on the face of a clock) as this can help visualize certain positions and also help build consistency through practice as if you swing the club to say 8 oclock to 4 oclock it should go X distance. If you swing from 9 to 3 it should go Y distance, if you swing from 10 to 2 it will go Z distance. I used to see many amateurs take huge backswings and decelerate into the ball or just rip into it for a 40 yard shot. It does not take much effort to propel a ball 20 -40 yards. I actually like to see slightly shorter backswings with slightly faster through swings and it helps eliminate the deceleration problem.

Hopefully that makes some bit of sense and is understandable. I think the most important thing in chipping and pitching would be to get a lesson from someone who knows how to teach that part of the game and can clearly show how the proper technique can be attained. Then it is practice and figuring out what works best for you.

Wow, very good feedback. I always top the ball in the short game, so it flight further. Do I still need a LW (58 ,60) if I have 56 SW? It is better to have the same brand of wedge to be consistent?

@nano...

To answer your questions.

Topping the ball is most likely due to bad ball position, an error in technique or a combination of both.

1. LW is needed if you know how to use it. It can be a difficult club for people to use if there technique is not very good. I would say that a 56 SW is enough, but there are times where a 60 comes in handy around the green. It really depends on whether you can use it properly and benefits your game.

2. The same brand of SW is enviable but not necessary. I think that shaft, grip, overall weight and swingwieght are very important with wedges. They should be similar/same for both. I am currently playing two types of wedges, but to be honest that is more due to me getting one for free and not wanting to pay for another. My playing career I had my wedges from the same manufacturer.

Sidenote...56 and 58 would be overkill. There should be a gap in between the lofts of your wedges. So I would suggest 54 and 58 or 56 and 60.

some good video on Short Game Lessons with Denis Pugh

My 2 cents:

Definition of Pitching and Chipping is not that important, more importantly, do you know how to get the ball close to the hole.

Sounds like u have poor contact, i.e. keep hitting the ball thin. In this case, using a wedge with higher loft is probably going to make your problem worse. The heavier the club, the further the ball will fly if you catch it thin.

If you want a quick fix for 20m shots, take a 5 hybrid or 3 hybrid to a chipping green and spend about 1 hour practicing. Don't worry too much about technique, just try and figure out how you can hit the ball cleanly and get a feel for the distance. Use whatever works for you.

The expect shot is a low running shot that looks almost like a putt. Don't expect to see the ball fly into the air with a hybrid.

Of course, if you have a bunker in between, this is not an appropriate shot. But while you are working on learning a shot pitch or a high flop, the hybrid punch/putt/chip is very useful to use on the course.

The video is interesting and informative. Learn a lot from it.

that is good advice with the hybrid, i do it myself when i just have to put it on the green.

To me, a pitch is anything above 50 m. and a chip is well...... everything else, whatever the club. There is no std is there, more important that u put it close. The scores don't say how you got there, just that you got there.

20 m in to flag, is a chip for sure. What club to choose is dependant how much green you have to play with. A pro told me once, don't use more loft than you have to. So, the stronger the club, the more roll you can get, stick with that club. Hence the hybrid chip.

With the hybrid, don't even worry about landing before the green before it releases, it might even be preferable.

wow, that is a good video

I have this tip on chipping to share. It works for me, but then it might not work for everybody though.

Using a lob (60*), I chipped in 2/3 of distance to pin and it will roll 1/3.
Using a PW , I chipped half distance to pin and it will roll half.
Using an 8 iron, I hit 1/3 distance and let it roll 2/3.

The rest is up to you to practice hitting 1/3, 1/2 and 2/3 distances with your clubs and reading the green accurately. It usually works rather well for me. If lucky, you will holed it, if not, the ball will be within a 1 putt distance. Good luck.

PS: This will not work if the green is not flat, ie, up hill slope or down hill slope. That you got to play/practice until you know how much strength you need to use.

titu